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Author | Topic: animals on the ark | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
quicksink Inactive Member |
maybe some enlightened one (the all-faithful creationist) could tell us how many species were on the ark, and explain their reasoning...
then they can tell us how the carnivores were fed how herbivores were fed (man that's a lot of food) how the boat stayed afloat in waters that could have overturned cruisse ships and how insects, like the fig wasp, that live for 3 days and require the fig fruit of the fig tree to reproduce, survived how insects like fruit flies and mosquitos, that reproduce unimaginably quickly, were kept from being a monstrous pest how Noah was able to repopulate the entire planet in 300 years how he was able to restore all cultures to their pre-flood state how this small population was able to rebuild all cities how noah and other biblical figures were able to live for 100s of yearsa, despite the finding of the contrary after the examination of mummies http://www.evcforum.net/Images/Smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]) how noah was able to collect all the animals how all the animals were able to move from turkey to australia, the americas, etc. without food (all vegetation would have been wiped out during the flood, and would have taken many years to regrow)... how fish, most who cannot tolerate even the slightest change is salinity, survived how marine mammals survived how coral survived (coral core measuring goes well beyond the estimated time of the flood, about 4000 years ago) how the americans and chinese and egyptians, not to mention their fabulous structures, survived... there are more... maybe you could quote me and then answer each question one by one... answer each one... and perhaps you could give a link or two to back up your claims...
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quicksink Inactive Member |
i hope that someone can answer these questions with scientific evidence as support
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quicksink Inactive Member |
i don't think it was a problem...
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quicksink Inactive Member |
quote: sorry, but that is ridiculous. after the flood, an astonishing rate of evolution would have been required to bring the world to the ecological diversity of today.
quote: contradiction alert! you said that animals migrated to the ark... eggs did too? and juveniles would take too long to reproduce once off the ark- most species would have to wait in turkey for a while.
quote: with processed meat- not sure they had that during the bronze age.
quote: they're fed with hay and other vegetables. These things would have to be on the ship, and that takes a lot of room, not to mention collection.
quote: ok- could you prove to me that this ark is more stable than a cruise ship?
quote: the fig wasp has been found fossilized, although i'm not goiong to go any further in playing your reference game. the fig wasp has special adaptations enabling it to lay eggs in the fig fruit. these adaptations would have taken many thousands of years to develop. and the flood occured roughly 4500 years ago.
quote: be careful. you're venturing into rough waters- a) insects would not have suvived the flood b) many insects, like the dragon fly, live for less than a day. Mating would have been impossible on the high seas, and most insects would have quickly gone extinct.
quote: you're right- it's etched in the bible. most creationists put the flood at about 4300-4600 years ago, during the height of the americas, egyptians, and chinese. right there you run into troubles.
quote: for example- the pyramids were built before the flood (please don't play your refernce card again!). i will give you a reference if you like. the pyramids would not have survived the flood. they would have been eroded and or covered in sediment.
quote: come on. noah and his ancestors would have had to to live in cities. they would have had to rebuild them all over the world.
[QUOTE]
quicksink:how noah and other biblical figures were able to live for 100s of yearsa, despite the finding of the contrary after the examination of mummies you misunderstood. i said that if people lived for hundreds of years, we would see evidence of this in the egyptian mummies. and you haven't answered the question. what would allow even a few people to live for 600 years?
quote: please don't tell me that god commanded all animals to the ark. please. now we're talking about creationist MAGIC. how would sloths get to th ark? they can only climb effectively in trees....... how would they cross deserts, not to mention bub-arctic wastelands?penguins would have died on the way to the ark... and how many men would noah have to hire? how many boats would they have to build? where would they go? and why would these men decide to do an excrutiatingly difficult job when they're about to die?
quote: plants cannot grow in even slightly salty soil. and it says that noah delivered all the animals around the planet where? this would have etaken an eternity!
quote: uh- yes? but maybe you could provide scientific evidence that fish could tolerate variations in salinity in noah's day (yeah right!!)
quote: wrong creationists put it about 4,300 to 4,600 years ago- but if you want to make the flood agree with the coral, then you can put the flood 40000 years ago when humans were barely tools. first you should realize how old that coral is- i've done my homework.
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quicksink:how the americans and chinese and egyptians, not to mention their fabulous structures, survived... John Paul:What structures and how do you know they were built before the Flood?[quote] the mayan and egyptian pyramids, the buildings of the chinese dynasty, and, from the site http://www.kidport.com/RefLib/WorldGeography/Greece/Greece.htm " Greece is one of the oldest civilizations, dating back over 5000 years. " these buildings were dated with a number of methods. 1. carbon dating 2. tree-ring dating 3. ancient records (geneolgy, refernces to lunar eclipses and the like) all of these corroborate one another. basically, they give roughly the same day.
quote: so wait, you believe that the bible, which is a christian book, is a historical reference. yet you are not a christian. i believe a non-christian creationist is an oxymoron. and give me some names of non-christian creationists.
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quicksink Inactive Member |
i find it amusing how the moment an evolutionist brings up a potent point, the creationists go deafeningly silent.
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quicksink Inactive Member |
actually, tc, i was refering to post on the horses. would you care to give an explanation?
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quicksink Inactive Member |
quote: i will be perfectly honest- i can't participate in a lot of these discussions- i know very little concerning the particulars of science and geology but tc- it seems to me that you're stumbling on your own feet. i thought there was a nuclear winter during the flood. now i do understand that the heat was coming from undergorund (plate tectonics), but how did the poles melt. if i recall, you said that a nuclear winter would have ensued during the flood that would have explained the ice ages that supposedly occured 30000 or so years ago. maybe i misinterpreted the meaning of the post.
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quicksink Inactive Member |
quote: So where is your indisputable evidence that life could not have arisen from inanimate matter?Do you even possess an understanding of this process? quote: Where in the Bible does it state that animals that migrated to the ship were no boarded?
quote: Give me proof that noah, living in the bronze age, possessed the tools to mechanically process meat and other foods
quote: Why don’t you give us the numbers that would explain the points brought up by schrafinator in a few posts above (in a number of posts) or did those creationist saints not provide any?
quote: Tell me how- this forum is for debating the facts- give them to me.
quote: Really? Give me the evidence to suggest that rapid fossilization could have occurred under natural conditions. If this were possible, then we would see the fossils of humans (all those humans that were buried outside a coffin) and other modern mammals- we don’t. but perhaps you have new evidence of the contrary?
quote: Is that your best response? Demand evidenceDo some research- there are thousands of articles on the mutual relationship between fig fruits and fig wasps. If you took the time to do a little searching, you’d learn how long this relationship would need to develop there’s a hole in the fig for the wasp to pass through, for god’s sake. quote: Hundreds of creationists and creationist sites. If you’d like me to direct you to one of these sites, I will, but for now I’m in a hurry.And what evidence do you have to suggest that the flood occurred this long ago- geological findings, archaeological digs, biblical passages, dating data? quote: The burden of proof does not rest on me. You prove that this is possible, then we can continue.
quote: Again- this resonse proves the feeblness of your rebuttles. The best you can do is demand a reference.Prove to me that it is possible. Give me some facts quote: Wrong based on what findings? What would suggest that a flood occurred 9000 years ago? Can you direct me to a creationist site that asserts this claim? C’mon, now. Produce something of scientific value, not worthless speculation.
quote: Once again, I dare you to give me evidence that your creationist model is correct.Ps- 9000 years ago, all civilizations were just beginning to emerge. Building an ark back then would have been impossible, unless you have evidence of the contrary. quote: Fine- now where’s that peer-reviewed paper to back it up?
quote: You seem to be changing theories when it suits you I have never met a creationist (out of the hundreds that I’ve met) that believes the flood occurred 9000 years ago- starating to get sticky, aren’t we?
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quicksink:how noah and other biblical figures were able to live for 100s of yearsa, despite the finding of the contrary after the examination of mummies So your best answer is good genes, eh? That’s your best response?I don’t see evidence- I don’t see 600 year old people around today- and I don’t see you proving anything. quote: David blaine uses illusions to make it appear that he is doing magic- god defies the laws of physics.
quote: Sorry, I don’t recall any evidence of that- show me that it is feasable for the continents to split in 6000-10000 years, or even in a thousand years. If this were true, tectonic activity would be so intense, we would be experiencing earth-quakes of indescribable magnitude every few weeks. And we would see the himilayas growing by a foot or more a year. We see one inch of growth a year.And maybe you could bring up a biblical reference that indicatates a single super-continent I haven’t seen any of those passages. Once again, you’re throwing unbased claims at me. You obviously have little or no knowledge of what you’re implying.
quote: [roll eyes] here we go again.It doesn’t take a masters in zoology to know that penguins cannot tolerate intense heat. Now the biblical stories take place in the mid-east that would make us believe that the penguins would have to migrate to the desert- or noah would have to sail to antarctica. quote: Now wait- where does it mention in the Bible that he hired men to sail the seas to find him animals that they had no knowledge of in those days?Another example of rhetoric. quote: What proof do you have that there is no natural mechanism that removes salt from the ocean?Your response confirms my belief that you have not an inkling of knowledge in the scientific field. If you had taken the time to research the issue, you would find that salt is constantly being taken from the ocean- here is a site that addresses your issue directly http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/salt.htm take the time to look through it, and stop making your very ignorant claims. quote: I assume that you are implying that there was a single land mass in this time, that has now split. You saw my previous post, I am sure.
quote: So first you claim that in the day of the flood, fish could tolerate these changes, and then, when that is destroyed, you retreat to your book.Tell ya what- find me some evidence on the net, or quote this sacred book of yours. quote: Do you know what a coral core is?Judging by your posts, you don’t. your first claim was that the earth is old enough to accommodate coral cores. Tehn once you realized that coral cores are 40000 years old, you claimed that god created them mature Well, you could believe that. Or you could believe that coral cores are one of many pieces of evidence that indicate the earth is older than the bible says. Give your answer to a scientist, and he’d laugh at your arrogance. You claim creationism is science, and yet you give this wild and completely unscientific claim. And BTW- are you familiar with the concept of Occam’s Razor? [QUOTE] quicksink: how the americans and chinese and egyptians, not to mention their fabulous structures, survived... John Paul: What structures and how do you know they were built before the Flood?[quote] the mayan and egyptian pyramids, the buildings of the chinese dynasty, and, from the site http://www.kidport.com/RefLib/WorldGeography/Greece/Greece.htm " Greece is one of the oldest civilizations, dating back over 5000 years. " these buildings were dated with a number of methods. 1. carbon dating 2. tree-ring dating 3. ancient records (geneolgy, refernces to lunar eclipses and the like) all of these corroborate one another. basically, they give roughly the same day. quote: Two words- unadulterated arrogance. Tree-ring dating is used to determine the date of such things as floods and fires, which may or may not have been recorded by ancient civilizations.And you haven’t addressed the other dating methods either. quote: and all these people believe in jesus, or are they defending their own holy books, which would, by the way, contradict the bible.
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quicksink Inactive Member |
Here are the three types of responses that i've gotten from paul
1. peer-reviewed reference 2. that book covered it, i think 3. utterly unsubstantiated utterings (i loved that.) i also see this pattern with other creationists... gee- could this mean that there are no good answers?
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quicksink Inactive Member |
i would like a short answers to all the questions that i asked at the beginning of this thread
short answers'll do.
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quicksink Inactive Member |
writing this so i can see tc's reply
tc- address n2c's issue. [This message has been edited by quicksink, 03-10-2002]
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quicksink Inactive Member |
here is another issue- on the ark, did animals hold their bladders and butts?
is someone going to tell me that 8 or so people removed all this waste from the ship? and the stench this would have created.
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quicksink Inactive Member |
i wonder if my good friend john is going to respond to my latest post... please do
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quicksink Inactive Member |
testing testi
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quicksink Inactive Member |
testing testi
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