Has the bias made this forum essentially irrelevant?

Granny Magda writes:HI GDR, When they get their paws off the schools, I'll ignore them. However, for as long as creationists seek to interfere with science education, they need to be persuaded away from creationism, or failing that, opposed.Some creationists, the ones with whom one stands a chance of having a reasonable conversation, I seek to persuade. Others though - and there are a couple on this thread - they are beyond reaching.Mutate and Survive

crashfrog writes: It's because I've made a study of the evidence for evolution for 15 years or more, actually came out of creationism by doing so, and have been so inspired as a result that I'm close to finishing a degree in biochemistry.

Percy writes:If this is true then it has been true all along. How could it account for diminished creationist participation today?There were times in the past when we had more than 10 evolutionist moderators and 0 creationist moderators. Today we have 4 evolutionist moderators and 1 creationist moderator, and this has been true for maybe the past year or so. In the couple years before that we had 3 or 4 evolutionist moderators. Recruiting creationist moderators has proved to be a significant challenge.While discussing various other things, on several occasions I suggested to the moderators at EvolutionFairyTale that we should have some discussions about working jointly to create a combined and more balanced debate environment. They never responded to or even acknowledged the suggestion. I think its because they consider themselves more a ministry than a debate site.We also added features to the forum software that have at least the potential to make moderation more fair. At one time suspensions had to be rescinded manually, and it was easy for moderators to forget to restore someone's privileges after a suspension. Now suspensions are timed automatically, and suspension periods ranging from 1 hour to 1 month to permanent are possible, and suspensions are never forgotten. The private messaging feature allows private dialogs with moderators.I don't know why you're using Bolder-dash as your example. Bolderdash is his own worst enemy because he ignores almost all moderation, and he is nearly always giving just as good as he gets, making it impossible for moderators to single anyone out. I've told him this many, many times.Creationists believe moderation here is biased because that is the easy and acceptable answer for why they perform so badly here, but most often the real reason is that everything they "know" about evolution comes from creationist sources, and they compound the problem by never quite believing that creationist sources, originating as they do with other Christians, would lie.But these creationist sources are not lying, at least not that they know of. In most cases they're just passing on what they themselves have been told. Many of the traditional creationist lies (shrinking sun and moon dust kind of arguments) originate with creationist leaders who were and are brilliant men, and as is well known, brilliant men are the ones most able to convince themselves of what they want to believe anyway. This is as much true of scientists as it is of creationists, as the examples of Fred Hoyle and Halton Arp attest, but the power of an idea isn't how strongly it convinces you but how well it convinces others, and in science evidence plays a key role in convincing others.But none of this science stuff affects the religious faith of those evolutionists who, like myself, are not atheists or agnostics. Their religious beliefs are based upon faith, not evidence, and no facts from the real world can challenge that faith. True faith needs no real world validation.--Percy

Percy writes: What brings you to moderator attention is when threads devolve into constant exchanges where everyone else is asking where your evidence is while you respond that you've already presented the evidence.An example is the Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen? thread. It looks like Message 574 is still the last post, waiting for an answer from you for over a month. All you need to do is describe which mountain in the Google satellite images of Saudi Arabia is Mount Sinai and how you identified it.I understand that you're unhappy that I requested that you not post until you responded to my requests for evidence, but I only did that because you were ignoring everyone else's requests for evidence. Your silence in response to this request says that what was already obvious to everyone, that you were avoiding the issue with claims that you'd already presented the evidence, is true. If the evidence doesn't exist then just say so and move on, then the discussion can continue. Moderation is not preventing you from participating in that thread. It is your inability to support your claims, perhaps combined with a pride that prevents any such admission.Anyway, you can be sure that moderation is not going to stand idly by watching threads that consist of little more than one side asking, "Where's your evidence," and the other side saying, "I've already presented it." Whenever this happens be assured that moderators will never step in and say, "Hey, you guys asking for evidence, stop it!"

Percy writes: In any event, this doesn't represent a change in moderation. I did the same thing with Peter Borger way back in 2004. This thread is about the reasons for the recent diminution in creationist participation.

Percy writes: As I said before, I would have taken the same action 10 years ago, and creationists and evolutionists have been accusing each other of bias since before time. Do you have any evidence that moderation at EvC Forum has changed in ways that have caused a diminution in creationist participation?

fearandloathing writes:Maybe we need a forum just to ridicule each other, I would enjoy reading the post there. Anyone who insisted on hijacking a thread and using it only to ridicule someone could be exiled to that forum for a few days as a warning.There might even be quite a few people who would use it without being asked to do so, if someone had a problem with xxxx then the could go there and start a topic on why xxxx is a moron.Bad idea???...probably, but if people are going to be allowed to do it time and again then there should be a place to do it where it wont interfere with those who dont care for it and are tired of off topic post that contain nothing but insults.

Dr Adequate writes:I don't see how the moderators could make the rest of us "acknowledge" your rather dubious "evidence". What are they meant to do --- make not agreeing with you a bannable offense?
Really, it's not their fault. You should get some better evidence.

Percy writes:You can't even find natural evidence for the Exodus, let along supernatural. If you would like to resume the Exodus discussion then simply return to the Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen? thread and post a message identifying which mountain in western Saudi Arabia is Mount Sinai and describing how you identified it. After how long and loudly you've touted this wonderful evidence, what is so hard about doing this that you have to instead come to this thread and complain about how unfair moderation was over there?--Percy

Huntard writes: This is exactly what they teach, which you would know, had you bothered to take classes in evolutionary biology.

Percy writes:Hi Buz,The message you posted yesterday in the Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen? thread, Message 576, contains no evidence, only claims of evidence.

Percy writes:It seems clear that Bolder-dash doesn't care how much or how often he confirms what I've been telling him all along, that it is his behavior that causes his problems, not biased moderation. His behavior in this thread would gain him suspensions at almost any moderated board. I've suspended evolutionists for far, far less. Given that his problems with moderators are central to his claims of bias, it's surprising that he doesn't realize that good behavior is essential to successfully making his case.Bolder-dash believes his experiences here are examples of a forum-wide moderation bias so intense that creationists avoid the place like the plague, but in its short life this thread has already become the best example we have not only of his bad behavior, but also of the determination and resolve he has to continue behaving badly no matter what. Once he starts he can't seem to stop himself.--Percy

Percy writes:Good question. Maybe we need some politeness police.--Percy

Bolder-dash writes: What behavior are you talking about-asking questions for evidence of evolution where you feel it doesn't belong, or being insulting? Which of my crimes is worse than everything else that is going on here. Do you have a good story about how I am the one trashing the place?

Panda writes: I would ask for evidence of this, but I realise that I would be wasting my time.
You would probably just point at a mountain while stuttering "But...but...but...".