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Author Topic:   So Just How is ID's Supernatural-based Science Supposed to Work? (SUM. MESSAGES ONLY)
tesla
Member (Idle past 1615 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 338 of 396 (618336)
06-02-2011 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 337 by Straggler
06-02-2011 6:45 PM


Re: open minded debate
Do you think that human belief in the existence of something constitutues evidence in favour of that thing actually existing?
Why exactly are human beliefs even relevant to "Supernatural Science"....?
Tesla writes:
The majority of mankind believes that God is a real thing.
Do you think that human belief in the existence of something constitutes evidence in favor of that thing actually existing?
Why exactly are human beliefs even relevant to "Supernatural Science"....?
Because according to the majority of the population there is more than just teaching involved for their beliefs. not to mention the tons of money sunk into research by individuals who believe the phenomenon to have more reality than just the imagination.
now tell me: is it better that uneducated peoples continue to dump money into mediocre research? or is it better that money contribute to true scientific exploration by the most educated minds?
I prefer to truly explore the potential in a way that--Right or wrong--will benefit mankind to have spent the funds.
Even if; explorations into the actual physics of consciousness do not explain superior consciousness, there is a possibility that it will. And if it doesn’t, understanding those physics will greatly enhance mankind in the ability to deal with issues of the consciousness: medically at the least, and perhaps even ‘evolution of thought’ as a pessimistic 'miss' in explaining the potential of superior consciousness.
How can you not see how only good can come from acknowledgment of potential superior intelligence?
Are you afraid a greater consciousness will be discovered?
Edited by tesla, : eep aap oop aha!

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by Straggler, posted 06-02-2011 6:45 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 339 by Straggler, posted 06-02-2011 7:25 PM tesla has replied

tesla
Member (Idle past 1615 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 340 of 396 (618340)
06-02-2011 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 339 by Straggler
06-02-2011 7:25 PM


Re: open minded debate
Are you afraid of the positively evidenced but tentative concision that the whole idea of an inherently materially inexplicable entity that constitutes this supernatural "greater intelligence" is nothing more than a product of human imagination?
Not at all. But: without excessive funding neither one of us can find out anytime soon right?
The fact is: It's potential that exploring the physics behind consciousness will find results with funding either way. It could discover superior consciousness; i.e. God.
And it might not. But either way: mankind gains

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by Straggler, posted 06-02-2011 7:25 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 341 by Straggler, posted 06-02-2011 7:40 PM tesla has replied

tesla
Member (Idle past 1615 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 342 of 396 (618342)
06-02-2011 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 341 by Straggler
06-02-2011 7:40 PM


Re: open minded debate
In the meantime all of the reliable positive evidence available to us suggest that gods are products of the human mind rather than real entities.
To be honest: There is no scientific evidence that explains anything concerning events labeled 'Supernatural'.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by Straggler, posted 06-02-2011 7:40 PM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 343 by jar, posted 06-02-2011 7:49 PM tesla has replied

tesla
Member (Idle past 1615 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 344 of 396 (618346)
06-02-2011 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 343 by jar
06-02-2011 7:49 PM


Re: open minded debate
Is there any evidence there even is anything supernatural?
That’s already been covered in this thread.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by jar, posted 06-02-2011 7:49 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 345 by jar, posted 06-02-2011 8:05 PM tesla has seen this message but not replied

tesla
Member (Idle past 1615 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 348 of 396 (618356)
06-02-2011 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 346 by Scienctifictruths
06-02-2011 8:23 PM


Re: open minded debate
Now I can't speak for the Physicists, but in the realm of Biology, if a theorem is not testable or falsifiable then it is rejected. Please, how would we test these Supernatural occurrences? How would we falsify them? You seem to be dodging these two questions.
The premise is that understanding how human consciousness works will reveal superior consciousness if it exists. (or at least point mankind in the right direction towards that end.)
We need to understand how data is relayed and interpreted by the human brain. Knowing this information will allow us to explore the potential that information can be relayed and interpreted by the human brain from large distances ( or of course, not.)
Until we understand the realm of consciousness we can only guess at why people exhibit 'supernatural' abilities such as studied phenomenon as psychic abilities, or even inspirations coming from "God".
Instead of jumping to "let's falsify God" it would be more productive to approach the matter as : Many individuals claim to be able to "hear" God in the realm of consciousness. If we unravel how consciousness works by natural physics of how data is sent through the brain, we may be able to identify "superior intelligence, or read and interpret thoughts in such a way as to explain the phenomenon.
This later approach will excite funding and potentially solve one of the greatest mysteries of mankind.
1)How would we test these occurrences?
2)How would we know what occurrences to test?
3)How would we falsify such occurrences?
You test what you do know to discover what you do not know. We know the brain communicates, yet we do not have the capability to interpret this communication outside of the brain itself. Perhaps research into what is considered supernatural will reveal the actual physics behind brain function that can shed light on these currently unidentifiable phenomenon. (Or more to the point, supernatural funding to accelerate scientific understanding of consciousness at the physics level)
Falsification is not the goal, the goal is: understanding; which can lead to verification of falsification.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by Scienctifictruths, posted 06-02-2011 8:23 PM Scienctifictruths has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 355 by Scienctifictruths, posted 06-03-2011 12:01 AM tesla has seen this message but not replied

tesla
Member (Idle past 1615 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 349 of 396 (618357)
06-02-2011 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 347 by Scienctifictruths
06-02-2011 8:38 PM


Re: open minded debate
There is enough belief that consciousness is outside of the realm of today’s science to validate research into the subject.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by Scienctifictruths, posted 06-02-2011 8:38 PM Scienctifictruths has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 350 by Panda, posted 06-02-2011 9:01 PM tesla has replied

tesla
Member (Idle past 1615 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 351 of 396 (618359)
06-02-2011 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by Panda
06-02-2011 9:01 PM


Re: open minded debate
If consciousness is outside of the realm of today's science, what are you going to use to research consciousness?
Build on what science does know about brain function and communication.
How is information sent and received in the brain? What is the role of electricity in the brain? What frequency is that electricity? Do the electrical impulses carry data like computers transfer data, or in some other way? How does the brain come up with ideas? Are idea’s chemically, or electrically generated? What area of the brain interprets data that has been stored? Could brain waves interpret data from an outside source besides its own brain tissue?
Etc. etc.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Panda, posted 06-02-2011 9:01 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 353 by Panda, posted 06-02-2011 9:31 PM tesla has replied

tesla
Member (Idle past 1615 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 354 of 396 (618366)
06-02-2011 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by Panda
06-02-2011 9:31 PM


Re: open minded debate
(Remember that you can't use science as you've already shown that consciousness is beyond the realm of today's science.)
consciousness is only beyond todays science because it does not have accelerated funding for its research.
It is currently researched quite well, but it could do better.
Brave new brain | Neuroscience | The Guardian

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by Panda, posted 06-02-2011 9:31 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 357 by Panda, posted 06-03-2011 6:35 AM tesla has seen this message but not replied
 Message 359 by Panda, posted 06-03-2011 9:54 AM tesla has replied

tesla
Member (Idle past 1615 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 358 of 396 (618411)
06-03-2011 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 356 by Scienctifictruths
06-03-2011 12:02 AM


Re: open minded debate
There is research being put into understanding why these phenomena take place as well, you linked some earlier under the heading of Parapsychology. However this is (for the most part) understanding how our brains can misinterpret signals and information creating such visions in our head, or what makes us create false images (the ideas behind these have the potential to be falsified at later dates upon further research).
Research takes funding. Those funding have some direction and control over the research.
Hypothetically, if a recognized University offered to the world:
"We have a proposal on the table to research how consciousness works at the physics level to give insight into supernatural phenomenon in the hopes to understand how God could be communicating. If this is an area that the public would like scientifically explored, we ask for funding for the project"
If successful and hundreds of millions pour in for research, Then there will be a lot to gain.
Psychology isn't where I’m going with this; psychology isn’t the physics of brain cell function. The brain runs on electrical impulses in conjunction with chemical reactions. Which parts of these brain activities transfer information, and how do we intercept that information and decode it to view 'thoughts'?
But without the premise of doing the research specifically to understand how a greater consciousness could be communicating, it’s unlikely to receive any funding from the religious community. (Which are also supported by many major companies.)
I believe a lot of government funding is for potential military usage and population control. After all, if they could plant propaganda on the subconscious level effectively they probably will.
So to recap:
Recognizing supernatural phenomenon 'could' be explained by understanding the human brain 'could' be a source of income to accelerate research into the brain; which would only benefit mankind.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 356 by Scienctifictruths, posted 06-03-2011 12:02 AM Scienctifictruths has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 360 by jar, posted 06-03-2011 9:55 AM tesla has replied
 Message 365 by Scienctifictruths, posted 06-03-2011 10:18 AM tesla has replied
 Message 372 by Taq, posted 06-03-2011 11:46 AM tesla has seen this message but not replied

tesla
Member (Idle past 1615 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 361 of 396 (618415)
06-03-2011 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 359 by Panda
06-03-2011 9:54 AM


Re: open minded debate
Ah...I see.
When someone asks you a question that points out the flaws in your logic, your response is to ignore the question.
An effective but disingenuous technique.
I have already answered your questions in other posts. Read my last post to scientific. If you leave me nothing to discuss, but only something to bicker, I choose to acknowledge and not bicker.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Panda, posted 06-03-2011 9:54 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 369 by Panda, posted 06-03-2011 11:15 AM tesla has replied

tesla
Member (Idle past 1615 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 362 of 396 (618416)
06-03-2011 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 360 by jar
06-03-2011 9:55 AM


Re: a nonsense research proposal
Sorry but what is a supernatural phenomenon?
Is there any evidence such a thing exists?
Words represent something. Maybe you should define the words?

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by jar, posted 06-03-2011 9:55 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 363 by hooah212002, posted 06-03-2011 10:13 AM tesla has replied
 Message 364 by jar, posted 06-03-2011 10:17 AM tesla has seen this message but not replied

tesla
Member (Idle past 1615 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 373 of 396 (618494)
06-03-2011 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 363 by hooah212002
06-03-2011 10:13 AM


Re: a nonsense research proposal
You've been asked for evidence and the only such thing you've provided has been belief
Since no evidence currently exists that is scientifically acceptable for providing real scientific answers for supernatural phenomenon, I have supplied a path that may reveal the truth of how many supernatural events take place.
The evidence that unexplainable supernatural events take place and apparently have a connection to the brain is enough reason to validate research into the subject via true science.
That [The evidence that unexplainable supernatural events] evidence is mainly the beliefs of the majority of mankind on this planet that they have communicable abilities with God, have seen ‘Ghosts’, and then there are those who exhibit paranormal capabilities statistically relevant and apparently supernatural because of science’s limited ability to explain such phenomenon.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by hooah212002, posted 06-03-2011 10:13 AM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 377 by hooah212002, posted 06-03-2011 5:56 PM tesla has seen this message but not replied

tesla
Member (Idle past 1615 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 374 of 396 (618496)
06-03-2011 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 365 by Scienctifictruths
06-03-2011 10:18 AM


Re: open minded debate
Activities are the events that occur, it's the processes and functions that transfer information. Again understanding how memory works, how thoughts work and thought transference are being studied in both the fields of Psychology & Neuroscience. I really fail to see where Physics could fit in here.
All natural things are bound by physics. If science cannot "read and interpret thoughts, as they happen" Then they do not have enough understanding and need to research how the brain relays information and comes up with ideas.
Since science cannot do that: research into the field would be useful.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by Scienctifictruths, posted 06-03-2011 10:18 AM Scienctifictruths has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 379 by Scienctifictruths, posted 06-03-2011 8:37 PM tesla has replied

tesla
Member (Idle past 1615 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 375 of 396 (618498)
06-03-2011 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 369 by Panda
06-03-2011 11:15 AM


Re: open minded debate
If consciousness is outside of the realm of today's science, what are you going to use to research consciousness?
Can you give an actual example of how you might research consciousness?
Please describe the process you would use.
I would hire the top brain experts and ask them what they needed to begin experiments to further understand how thoughts are interpreted and relayed within the brain.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by Panda, posted 06-03-2011 11:15 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by Panda, posted 06-03-2011 7:45 PM tesla has seen this message but not replied

tesla
Member (Idle past 1615 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 376 of 396 (618500)
06-03-2011 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 370 by Taq
06-03-2011 11:26 AM


Re: open minded debate
How do we determine if something will always be unexplainable?
That cannot be determined.
Also, when someone says that an event was caused by the Supernatural they are claiming that they DO HAVE AN EXPLANATION. That it IS EXPLAINED. So something cannot be supernatural and unexplained at the same time.
That is not always true. Those who do have explanations such as "God told me" or "a spirit informed me" cannot be validated at this time. Research into how the brain communicates may reveal how they have arrived at this conclusion, and whether or not they truly did receive information from an outside force. Until we rule out whether or not the brain has the ability to interpret imbedded information from long distances we have only their word.
You are equating dark matter with the supernatural, are you not?
I equate our level of understanding 'dark matter' and reasoning for researching the 'apparent' phenomenon to be the same.
Dark matter is simply the discovery of mathematical computations of matter not adding up.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by Taq, posted 06-03-2011 11:26 AM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
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