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Author Topic:   Has the bias made this forum essentially irrelevant?
Percy
Member
Posts: 18309
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 301 of 355 (618147)
06-01-2011 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by GDR
06-01-2011 3:20 PM


Re: Ok, I'll give my opinion ...
GDR writes:

Too true. I guess I'm just trying to suggest maybe some self moderating might be in order, or possibly moderators suggesting that the rhetoric might be toned down without any threat of suspension.

I've found moderator "ahems" and "could you tone it down a bits" to be both ineffective and inflammatory at the same time. Some of the time it works, but most of the time you get ignored, or even worse you get a "Hey, how come you're picking on me when it's him who started it," and you end up creating more work for yourself.

Of course, perhaps if someone would check their PM box and say yes this time it would help improve things around here.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by GDR, posted 06-01-2011 3:20 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16085
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


(3)
Message 302 of 355 (618163)
06-01-2011 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Bolder-dash
06-01-2011 9:05 AM


Yes you are right Dr. A, Aaron is very polite. He backs up everything he says with hard facts, he knows what he is talking about, and he is not sarcastic. And yet you do none of those things. Isn't that odd?

You are, of course, lying.

Come to think of it, sleevesque is polite Marc is polite. Dawn is polite. Buzsaw is polite. And just about every creationist who has ever come on here is polite.

You are, of course, lying.

And yet so many of the evolutionists who post here are not, isn't that very strange? You don't consider your self polite do you A?

I am polite to those who merit it.

Why aren't you polite A?

I am not polite to you because that would not be compatible with being truthful. If, like Aaron, your fault lay in mistaking a medial view of a whale's pelvis for a lateral view, then I could say so politely, as I did to him. However, your fault is that you are a disgusting liar and a contemptible hypocrite, and there is no polite way to say so.

You want everyone else to be ...

Funny, I must have missed where I said that.

So what is the matter with so many of the evolutionists here? What has got into them?

Really, you're whining about people being impolite? You who started a thread to call the owner of these forums "a fucking pussy"?

See, this is what I'm talking about when I call you a hypocrite.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Bolder-dash, posted 06-01-2011 9:05 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by ZenMonkey, posted 06-02-2011 12:09 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 18309
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 303 of 355 (618166)
06-01-2011 6:16 PM


Moderation over at Debating Christianity and Religion
I was checking out how moderation was handled while Bolder-dash was participating over at Debating Christianity and Religion, and I thought they did a pretty good job. I like their procedures, what I can discern about them.

Bolder-dash was participating in the Evolution shows that nature has created humans thread, but I don't know at what point he joins. He receives his final warning on Page 15.

You only get so many moderator warnings, and they have levels of warnings, though I noticed only two: informational and warning. I'm not sure if their procedures are manual or automated, but if I do something similar here it would be automated.

--Percy


  
ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 2588 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


(1)
Message 304 of 355 (618189)
06-02-2011 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 302 by Dr Adequate
06-01-2011 5:50 PM


Dr Adequate writes:

I am not polite to you because that would not be compatible with being truthful. If, like Aaron, your fault lay in mistaking a medial view of a whale's pelvis for a lateral view, then I could say so politely, as I did to him. However, your fault is that you are a disgusting liar and a contemptible hypocrite, and there is no polite way to say so.

You forgot "crybaby."

This, by the way, is germane to the thread's stated topic. It could be that there are fewer creationists here because it's rare for someone to sustain the level of cognitive dissonance necessary to come to this forum and have his views dissected for the ill-formed, senseless mush that they are time and time again. That takes a lot of dedication to the purpose. However, it must also be frustrating and emotionally disturbing. Hence the tendency for a creationist to fall back on deceit and hypocrisy, as you point out, as well as a hefty load of self-pity

I'm just sayin'.


Your beliefs do not effect reality and evidently reality does not effect your beliefs.
-Theodoric

Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
-Steven Colbert

I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
- John Stuart Mill


This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-01-2011 5:50 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by Bolder-dash, posted 06-02-2011 9:55 PM ZenMonkey has not yet responded

Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 1708 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


(1)
Message 305 of 355 (618368)
06-02-2011 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by ZenMonkey
06-02-2011 12:09 AM


You forgot "crybaby."

This, by the way, is germane to the thread's stated topic.

Maybe you could elaborate on this a little more? Because I happen to agree with you, calling creationists liars and cry babies is very germane to the topic and should be explored.

And of course likewise you would agree then that calling evolutionists liars and cry babies would be relevant to the topic and should be equally open for discussion, since if evolutionists are bigger liars or bigger cry babies than the creationists who post here, that could change the whole premise of your statements.

Ah, but of course, we are not allowed to determine on this thread if the evolutionists are *** when they state they have abundant evidence for the ToE because that would be off topic.

So I guess all I can do is say evolutionists are liars without being able to substantiate that claim. That is a right we equally share in this debate, correct?

Or is that another ones of those rights that only evolutionists get here. I just want to make sure.

I would of course love to explore the evidence that evolutionists are liars, and yes maybe even cry babies, right here in this thread in fact, but apparently that is not "germane to the thread's stated topic" as you say.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by ZenMonkey, posted 06-02-2011 12:09 AM ZenMonkey has not yet responded

Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 1708 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


(1)
Message 306 of 355 (618370)
06-02-2011 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by Percy
06-01-2011 9:28 AM


Good question. Maybe we need some politeness police.

I have to admit I found this rather amusing that you would say this, as if it was some kind of new concept or something. You do realize that on most sites, especially science ones (this isn't a site for heavy metal or WWF enthusiasts you realize?) that is precisely what moderators are for? They are not there simply to brow beat everyone who they think is off topic or decide what the definition of words are.

What is more detrimental to open discussion on a discussion and debate website, tangents of topics or calling someone evil *** belligerent ***. I have my opinion about which is, but I can see you have yours.

But it makes it even more hard to fathom when you say things like:

It seems clear that Bolder-dash doesn't care how much or how often he confirms what I've been telling him all along, that it is his behavior that causes his problems, not biased moderation. His behavior in this thread would gain him suspensions at almost any moderated board.

What behavior are you talking about-asking questions for evidence of evolution where you feel it doesn't belong, or being insulting? Which of my crimes is worse than everything else that is going on here. Do you have a good story about how I am the one trashing the place?

Isn't it quite bizarre that you are so up in arms about MY behavior? "Oh that terrible Bolder who goes off topic all the time asking for evidence for the ToE! He is evil I tell you, pure evil! "


This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by Percy, posted 06-01-2011 9:28 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by Panda, posted 06-03-2011 6:37 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded
 Message 309 by Percy, posted 06-03-2011 7:19 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded
 Message 310 by Buzsaw, posted 06-03-2011 8:38 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded
 Message 315 by Meddle, posted 06-03-2011 10:08 AM Bolder-dash has responded

Panda
Member (Idle past 1790 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 307 of 355 (618389)
06-03-2011 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 306 by Bolder-dash
06-02-2011 10:22 PM


Bolder-dash writes:

....boring...


Bored now.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by Bolder-dash, posted 06-02-2011 10:22 PM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 308 by cavediver, posted 06-03-2011 6:47 AM Panda has acknowledged this reply

cavediver
Member (Idle past 1721 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 308 of 355 (618390)
06-03-2011 6:47 AM
Reply to: Message 307 by Panda
06-03-2011 6:37 AM


Bored now.

If only now, you have an enviable tolerance...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by Panda, posted 06-03-2011 6:37 AM Panda has acknowledged this reply

Percy
Member
Posts: 18309
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 309 of 355 (618393)
06-03-2011 7:19 AM
Reply to: Message 306 by Bolder-dash
06-02-2011 10:22 PM


Hi Bolder-dash,

Would you be interested in having your own board where you were the lead administrator? You have your own ideas about how a board should be run, and I have a new version of my discussion board software that needs testing. I could provide you a subdomain on this server, or you could install the software on your own server.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by Bolder-dash, posted 06-02-2011 10:22 PM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 310 of 355 (618401)
06-03-2011 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 306 by Bolder-dash
06-02-2011 10:22 PM


Re: Does Bias Render This Board Irrelevant.
Bolder-dash writes:


What behavior are you talking about-asking questions for evidence of evolution where you feel it doesn't belong, or being insulting? Which of my crimes is worse than everything else that is going on here. Do you have a good story about how I am the one trashing the place?

Regarding behavior, it is anathema on nearly all boards for moderators to debate on behalf of their own ideological positions in threads they are debating in as Admin and AdminPD have done on this board, both in the science forum and the Coffee House Forum as I have cited.

Regarding bias, the intensity of moderation upon Buzsaw in the Exodus thread by Admin and in the Coffee House by PD is unprecedented here at EvC.

Bold is right. This bias does, to some extent, make this board irrelevant. Good effective creationists are reluctant to remain where bias against them is practiced.

Members like to debate me because I give them a run for their money. Threads turn red quite consistently. This is what makes forums relevant. This is what draws lurkers into participation.

In eight plus years I have a total of two hours suspensions and two permanent bannings. The bannings came suddenly, one after I handily won what was to be the first ever Great Debate on this site. There was to be two judges to judge after the debate. The consensus was that I won the debate and no judging happened. The other came shortly after a long thread in which I debated on the properties of space, rendering it, allegedly, capable of expansion. The consensus of my opponents boiled down to, the property of space to expand is that space expands. How would that level of evidence fly for the existence of the supernatural? It wouldn't.

Conclusion. Bold's contention that bias makes this board irrelevant has some credence.

Bold is smart, astute, witty, rational, perceptive and feisty, capable of robust and interesting debate which livens up any board to make it relevant. Bold is impartial on religion. Bold does not mince. He tells it like it is. His criticism would be constructive if people would listen up and learn from it how to improve the relevancy of the board.

I second my own nomination for AdminBold for moderator on behalf of balance on a trial basis, subject to the Forum Guidelines.

Edited by Buzsaw, : Enhance word


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by Bolder-dash, posted 06-02-2011 10:22 PM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 311 by Panda, posted 06-03-2011 8:58 AM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 312 by Theodoric, posted 06-03-2011 9:00 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 313 by PaulK, posted 06-03-2011 9:17 AM Buzsaw has acknowledged this reply
 Message 314 by cavediver, posted 06-03-2011 10:00 AM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 319 by purpledawn, posted 06-03-2011 10:40 AM Buzsaw has responded

Panda
Member (Idle past 1790 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 311 of 355 (618404)
06-03-2011 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 310 by Buzsaw
06-03-2011 8:38 AM


Re: Does Bias Render This Board Irrelevant.
Buzsaw writes:

Regarding behavior, it is anathema on nearly all boards for moderators to debate on behalf of their own ideological positions in threads they are debating in as Admin and AdminPD have done on this board, both in the science forum and the Coffee House Forum as I have cited.


I would ask for evidence of this, but I realise that I would be wasting my time.
You would probably just point at a mountain while stuttering "But...but...but...".
This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by Buzsaw, posted 06-03-2011 8:38 AM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 316 by Buzsaw, posted 06-03-2011 10:28 AM Panda has not yet responded

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5954
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 312 of 355 (618405)
06-03-2011 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 310 by Buzsaw
06-03-2011 8:38 AM


Re: Does Bias Render This Board Irrelevant.
I guess it is a good thing this isn't run by votes. Maybe you and Bold should take Percy's advice and start your own board. Let's see how successful it is.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by Buzsaw, posted 06-03-2011 8:38 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14750
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 313 of 355 (618407)
06-03-2011 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 310 by Buzsaw
06-03-2011 8:38 AM


Re: Does Bias Render This Board Irrelevant.
quote:

Members like to debate me because I give them a run for their money

Well there's one of the biggest lies I've ever seen.

You do realise that the moderator intervention in the Exodus thread was all about getting you to advance the discussion instead of of wasting time rehashing points that had already been thoroughly refuted ?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by Buzsaw, posted 06-03-2011 8:38 AM Buzsaw has acknowledged this reply

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 1721 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


(2)
Message 314 of 355 (618414)
06-03-2011 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 310 by Buzsaw
06-03-2011 8:38 AM


Re: Does Bias Render This Board Irrelevant.
The consensus of my opponents boiled down to, the property of space to expand is that space expands.

Really, Buzz? That is the level of explanation you were offered? Were you that blind to my posts, or is it just Lie-for-Jesus-June?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by Buzsaw, posted 06-03-2011 8:38 AM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 318 by Buzsaw, posted 06-03-2011 10:34 AM cavediver has not yet responded

Meddle
Member
Posts: 166
From: Scotland
Joined: 05-08-2006


(1)
Message 315 of 355 (618418)
06-03-2011 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 306 by Bolder-dash
06-02-2011 10:22 PM


What is more detrimental to open discussion on a discussion and debate website, tangents of topics or calling someone evil *** belligerent ***.

Well how can discussion continue if someone insists on going off topic? Why should someone take the time and energy to write out a detailed reply if their opponent is just going to ignore or fail to comprehend their post, instead moving onto some other topic? By comparison posting expletives is more a minor inconvenience which can be ignored, although it does give an indication how seriously the offending poster is going to take any well thought out reply.

I've noticed a lot with creationist posters that they will post an off topic question about evolution, making it awkward for someone to reply when they know it's going to be highlighted as off topic and moderators requesting no replies to keep the original topic on track. Sometimes an evolutionist will post a more thorough reply in a suitable topic, and providing a link from the off topic reply. However I've yet to see any creationist poster take such opportunities to support their arguments. It seems like you're not confident that your arguments will stand up to scrutiny.

Instead of flying a martyrs flag, go to topics where you can ask specific on topic questions. You will then get proper replies from Evolutionists and you won't be 'silenced' by moderators. But do ask specific questions, some of us have done four or more years at university studying some aspect of biology and its a huge subject, so simply asking for evidence for evolution is too broad. Take Aaron's topic on whale evolution as an excellent example. It's looking at a specific example of evolution and in the process of reading up about it even those on the evolution side of the debate have the opportunity to learn something new.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by Bolder-dash, posted 06-02-2011 10:22 PM Bolder-dash has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 321 by Bolder-dash, posted 06-03-2011 11:08 AM Meddle has not yet responded

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