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Author Topic:   Was Christ a communist?
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 115 of 128 (618530)
06-03-2011 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Phat
06-03-2011 6:08 PM


Re: Real Life...real issues
You must remember the setting for what Jesus was saying. His advice is meant to be religious; he is not laying out new social rules. The end of the world as we know it is coming, says Jesus, and you better be on the side of the good when it gets here!
Jesus' advice is wonderful as a means of running a fair society; but that is not the intention he put behind it. Doing good, for Jesus, is not about making the world a better place; it is about buying your ticket to salvation when the judgement comes.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Phat, posted 06-03-2011 6:08 PM Phat has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 117 of 128 (618617)
06-04-2011 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Phat
06-04-2011 5:20 AM


Re: Redistribution Of Wealth
That being said, I dont think that I should have to pay higher taxes and give more to the poor if I myself feel myself becoming poor also.
Everyone who has to pay out money feels like they are becoming poor. If that were an excuse to avoid paying a fair share, well...
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Phat, posted 06-04-2011 5:20 AM Phat has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 119 of 128 (618632)
06-04-2011 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Modulous
06-04-2011 11:56 AM


Re: Redistribution Of Wealth
I wouldn't worry about it too much though, many people profess to have a deep faith in God who actually don't trust him at all.
Well, I believe in GOD, but I would never rely on GOD to provide me with what I wanted/needed for survival even though I believe that GOD is the only one who can provide those things.
But I think that seems reasonable. There is nothing wrong with letting reality trump belief.
The real test of faith is not how much you profess belief, vain professions of faith are worthless. If you had faith that Christ was/is God you would not care about your personal wealth since you would have faith God would make sure you were sufficiently provided for. As a Biblical reference see Matthew 6.
Does this speak to Christ being a communist, though? Communism is a societal/political ideology which seeks, in part, to make life better and sustainable to everyone with a fairly equal standard of living for individualsinstead of the averagely high standard of living provided by capitalism.
I do not think that Jesus was a communist; his teachings are purely religious and have nothing to do with politics or society. I would dare say that his teachings are actually rather selfish. From the chapter you referenced:
quote:
Matthew 6:14—15 (NRSV):
For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; but if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Jesus doesn't advocate a fair and equal society so much as he does a way into the Kingdom. In fact, in Matthew, I think that message is extremely clear (cf. 25:31—46). Selling all your possessions and giving the money to the poor may be a good way to please God (19:1—22), but it is not meant to instruct folk wishing to create the ideal society.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Modulous, posted 06-04-2011 11:56 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Modulous, posted 06-04-2011 1:16 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 121 of 128 (618645)
06-04-2011 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Modulous
06-04-2011 1:16 PM


Re: Redistribution Of Wealth
Then you believe God exists, ...
Yes, I believe GOD exists; I do not know that GOD exists.
... you don't believe in God (ie., you don't have faith in god, only his existence).
What does it even mean to believe in GOD? I think it is irrational to starve myself to death while waiting for some undetectable entity to bring me some food. Despite how irrational my beliefs about GOD already are, I don't need to make them more so!
But if you believe God exists in reality, and you trust that he will look after you in reality...
I believe GOD exists, just like I believe the farmers who grow my food exist. I do not 'trust that he will look after' me, though; I don't count on others, even if I depend on them.
That GOD or the farmers have what it takes to provide for me or that my trust may be put fully into them for that provision is no reason to stop going to work each day to earn money to live. I don't expect the farmers to hand me their crops; I don't expect GOD to hand me HERS.
It is evidence of your lack of faith.
It depends on what you mean by 'faith'. Hoping for someone else to look after you just because they can is, in my book, a pretty piss-poor way to understand faith. It's common in many fundamentalist circles; but ultimately it's crap.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Modulous, posted 06-04-2011 1:16 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Modulous, posted 06-04-2011 7:11 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 123 of 128 (618672)
06-04-2011 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Modulous
06-04-2011 7:11 PM


Re: Redistribution Of Wealth
But I was suggesting faith to mean 'trusting God will do what he says'
I cannot think of GOD having made any promises, certainly nothing I could expect holding IT to.
I was just drawing the distinction between actually trusting someone (having faith) and merely believing they exist.
There's a lot of ground in between.
Jon
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Modulous, posted 06-04-2011 7:11 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Modulous, posted 06-05-2011 4:14 AM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 125 of 128 (618698)
06-05-2011 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Modulous
06-05-2011 4:14 AM


Re: Redistribution Of Wealth
You should read the Bible, he starts with the promises pretty early on.
I don't believe in the God of the 'Bible'.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Modulous, posted 06-05-2011 4:14 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Modulous, posted 06-05-2011 11:32 AM Jon has not replied

  
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