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Member (Idle past 1406 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Definition of Species | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
tesla Member (Idle past 1594 days) Posts: 1199 Joined:
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Please do not let your anger kill the productivity of the debate.
Definition of species is an interesting debate. Please allow this article to help you follow your point to fruition? "The key changes are not in bits of DNA that humans acquired as theyevolved—extra genes that we have but chimps and other animals do not—but in chunks of DNA that we lost. What’s more, the chunks in question are not even genes at all, but sequences of DNA that lie in between genes and act as switches, orchestrating when and where specific genes are turned on and off through the course of an animal’s development." This is a 2011 article. WordPress.com "The set-up allowed Kingsley and his colleagues to physically seewhere the AR and GADD45G genes are switched on in mice and chimp fetuses, and so what humans lack (Nature, DOI: 10.1038/nature09774)." keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is ~parmenides
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Taq Member Posts: 9975 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
Definition of species is an interesting debate. Please allow this article to help you follow your point to fruition? This is a very, very good point. It is entirely possible to have two separate species that share all of the same genes where the differences between the species are due to differential expression of genes. Also, morphological differences can arise due to the relative differences in mRNA levels for a given gene, and when those genes are turned on during embryonic development and maturation. This is why the cutting edge of evolutionary research (at least in metazoans) focuses so strongly on Evo-Devo.
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Hi Tesla,
Big Al's position is that humans have every gene that chimps have and more. He seemed to feel that more is better, and that it is therefore impossible that chimps could be better than humans by having more genes. He isn't likely to see an argument that humans have less of anything than chimps as helpful. On a more general level Al's position is that it isn't possible to use genetics to differentiate between species, and so he's also unlikely to welcome the work of Dr. Kingsley identifying key genetic differences between humans and our nearest relatives. --Percy
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tesla Member (Idle past 1594 days) Posts: 1199 Joined: |
Big Al's position I read the majority of his posts and was not able to define his position exactly. I do know he doesn’t agree with yours. I posted the information because he intrigued me by not being clear as to "where he was going" If he ignores the information I can only conclude he didn't know where he was going. keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is ~parmenides
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Wounded King Member Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined: |
On a more general level Al's position is that it isn't possible to use genetics to differentiate between species I've got to say Percy, this sounds like the very opposite of Big Al's position. He has been saying since way back in Message 146 that species can be defined by distinct sets of genes, what he disputes is that we can meaningfully infer cross species ancestry and phylogeny from DNA similarities. TTFN, WK
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Yes, you're right, it would have been better had I emphasized that he doesn't accept that genetic analysis can derive ancestry. Regarding whether species are defined by distinct sets of genes he has been inconsistent. What he was saying back around Message 146 contradicts his position later on when he was arguing that humans and chimps shared all the same genes.
But it is a mistake to see too much coherency in Al's views. Any sense that some might think is there I claim is not real but is merely in the eye of the beholder, a kind of conceptual pareidolia. --Percy Edited by Percy, : Grammar. Edited by Percy, : Grammar. Edited by Percy, : Grammar.
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 800 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
tesla writes: Definition of species is an interesting debate. Please allow this article to help you follow your point to fruition? And please tell me what you think my point is? More interestingly, what is your point as you have submitted an article. Presumably there is a point to it?
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Wounded King Member Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined: |
Surely Tesla's point is fairly well conveyed by the article he chose to cite. Several key differences between humans and chimps are not due to any human specific gains of novel genes but rather the human specific loss of particular non-coding regulatory sequences which are otherwise conserved in mammals.
As to what he thinks your point is, he himself says only a few posts later that he can't tell, along with the rest of us in fact. Perhaps you could put an end to our longstanding anticipation and actually tell us yourself what your point is. TTFN, WK
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 800 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
WK writes: Surely Tesla's point is fairly well conveyed by the article he chose to cite. There you go, answering for other people again...why do you keep doing that? What is the point of this?
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Hi Big Al,
Welcome back. Have you returned to resume the discussion we were having last month? --Percy
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 800 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
Percy writes: Welcome back. Have you returned to resume the discussion we were having last month? I was just curious to know where this discussion would be headed without my input. However, it would appear that between you, you have very few ideas and have made very little progress.
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Big_Al35 writes: I was just curious to know where this discussion would be headed without my input. However, it would appear that between you, you have very few ideas and have made very little progress. You were wondering whether the discussion with you would continue after you left? How odd! Anyway, if you'd like to continue the discussion about the definition of species then that's what this thread is here for. --Percy
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 800 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
Percy writes: You were wondering whether the discussion with you would continue after you left? How odd! Are you saying that unless I contribute you will close this thread down? Be my guest.
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Percy Member Posts: 22394 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Big_Al35 writes: Are you saying that unless I contribute you will close this thread down? Be my guest. I'm not sure where that's coming from, and I'm a participant in this thread, not a moderator. Anyway, not sure why you keep keep popping back in if you're not interested in continuing the discussion, but if you'd like to do that then the thread's open and available. --Percy
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fiedel  Suspended Junior Member (Idle past 4642 days) Posts: 2 Joined: |
(1) The lowest taxonomic rank, and the most basic unit or category of biological classification.
(2) An individual belonging to a group of organisms (or the entire group itself) having common characteristics and (usually) are capable of mating with one another. A species is given a two-part name: the generic name and the specific name (or specific epithet). For example, Allium cepa (commonly known as onion) Edited by Admin, : Fix message subtitle.
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