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Author Topic:   Mythology and Belief of Anti-Theism
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 93 of 165 (616774)
05-24-2011 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by ScientificBob
05-24-2011 11:01 AM


Re: The Unreasonable Reasoning of the Anti-Religious
but you're still an atheist if you are not a theist. There's only 2 options: you believe or you don't. Saying "i don't know" is the same as not believing (positively). Not believing = not being theist = you're an atheist.
It could be broken down differently though:
A. You believe god exists.
B. You don't believe god exists.
C. You don't know if god exists or not..
D. You believe god doesn't exist.
E. You don't believe god doesn't exist.
F. You don't know what you believe.
So you could not have a belief that god exists, but also not have a belief that he doesn't, and I don't think you should be considered an atheist for that.
I'm not sure any particular break-down is more correct than another, but I don't think you can force people to break it down the way you have chosen.
Another way to distinguish atheism from agnosticism is
1 = belief that god exists
0 = no belief either way
-1 = belief that god does not exist
Not 1 (!1) can be either 0 or -1 so simply being not 1 doesn't necessitate being a -1.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by ScientificBob, posted 05-24-2011 11:01 AM ScientificBob has replied

Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 115 of 165 (616970)
05-25-2011 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Jon
05-25-2011 12:04 PM


Re: The Unreasonable Reasoning of the Anti-Religious
believe and know = gnostic theist
believe on faith alone = agnostic theist
not believe and know = gnostic atheist
not believe and not know = agnostic atheist.
Perfect breakdown.
What if you don't know what you believe?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Jon, posted 05-25-2011 12:04 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Jon, posted 05-25-2011 1:13 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 120 by Trae, posted 05-26-2011 5:16 AM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 131 by ScientificBob, posted 05-30-2011 9:24 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 118 of 165 (616986)
05-25-2011 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Jon
05-25-2011 1:13 PM


Re: The Unreasonable Reasoning of the Anti-Religious
What if you don't know what you believe?
Then you're all out agnostic I suppose: you know not even yourself.
Seriously. I don't think it's unreasonable. And it should be reflected in a "perfect" breakdown.
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 121 of 165 (617156)
05-26-2011 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by Trae
05-26-2011 5:16 AM


Because you might believe.

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 137 of 165 (617773)
05-31-2011 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by ScientificBob
05-30-2011 9:24 AM


definition
Then you can not say that you DO believe.
And if you can not say that you DO believe... guess what... then you are an atheist.
Nah, I don't accept that definition, why should I?
The word is supposed to mean that you believe that god doesn't exist.
It seems like its being diluted to reduce irrationality and be more inclusive. Why?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by ScientificBob, posted 05-30-2011 9:24 AM ScientificBob has replied

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 Message 153 by ScientificBob, posted 06-16-2011 8:58 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 154 of 165 (620415)
06-16-2011 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by ScientificBob
06-16-2011 8:58 AM


Re: definition
Again: you need to actively believe certain claims to be a theist. If you do not have that positive belief, then you are not a theist. If you are not a theist, you are an atheist.
I can't say it in a simpler way.
Its not that I don't understand your position, its that I know that your position is wrong.
The word "atheism" comes from the greek root the(os) - which means godless - + ism.
The dictionary defines it as:
quote:
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no god.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
So this claim of yours:
Atheism means "the absence of theism".
is simply false.
Now, I realize that today people do use the word "atheism" to mean "not theism", but as I said, this is pulling back from the strength of the claim - thus the "weak atheism" that, yes, I have heard of.
Strong atheism is what includes the claim that no gods exist.
It's essentially the difference between agnostic atheism and gnostic atheism.
"I don't believe in" vs "there's no such thing".
Well yeah, its not to hard to find irrationality in the claim that there's no such thing as god. That's one of the reasons that the neo-atheists of today have pulled back a bit.

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 159 of 165 (620440)
06-16-2011 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by hooah212002
06-16-2011 1:07 PM


Re: definition
In the event you meant god in the general sense (pretty sure you didn't, though):
No, I did.
I'm not saying the disbelief *must be* irrational, but that it easily *can be* and when it is its obvious. There's context here, and I's borrowing phraseology...
I personally think that believing in invisible all-powerful beings to be the irrational belief.
Sure, it can be and usually is.

This message is a reply to:
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