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Author Topic:   Spiritually malnourished Atheist
doyle
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 17 (59335)
10-04-2003 5:39 AM


Years ago I was a Christian but found it to be unpallatable with the reasoning part of the mind.For the past 17 years I have been a Atheist but now I find the spiritual part of my mind to be neglected.I do not and never will believe in the existence of a God created in the image of Humans but I do feel an experience of AWE at the uncomprehendable Universe.I have checked out Scientific Pantheisim, and Budhisim has some interesting views.What do some of you seekers of the Truth suggest.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by crashfrog, posted 10-04-2003 5:58 AM doyle has not replied
 Message 4 by mike the wiz, posted 10-04-2003 7:51 PM doyle has not replied
 Message 5 by Chiroptera, posted 10-04-2003 9:02 PM doyle has not replied
 Message 6 by John, posted 10-05-2003 12:48 AM doyle has not replied
 Message 8 by Mike Holland, posted 10-22-2003 6:47 AM doyle has not replied
 Message 9 by Phat, posted 02-19-2004 8:05 PM doyle has not replied
 Message 10 by Dan Carroll, posted 02-19-2004 10:58 PM doyle has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1492 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 2 of 17 (59337)
10-04-2003 5:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by doyle
10-04-2003 5:39 AM


What do some of you seekers of the Truth suggest.
That the "spiritual part of your brain" is actually a culturally-conditioned reflex.
Why would you choose what to believe based on how good it makes your brain feel? Why not believe what is true? Or at least what you can determine is true?
It sounds like you're just looking to get sucked into the vicious circle of religion again - or that you never left it.
Try living without spirituality. If you need fulfillment, get it from lasting achevements. If you need communion get it from your community. If you need to feel awe then feel it for the very real and very, very complex physical universe you inhabit.
Surely living can't be so simple for you that you have to make up additional levels of complexity?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by doyle, posted 10-04-2003 5:39 AM doyle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by mark24, posted 10-04-2003 6:54 PM crashfrog has not replied

mark24
Member (Idle past 5220 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 3 of 17 (59403)
10-04-2003 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by crashfrog
10-04-2003 5:58 AM


What would an atheist be doing with spirituality?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by crashfrog, posted 10-04-2003 5:58 AM crashfrog has not replied

mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 4 of 17 (59410)
10-04-2003 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by doyle
10-04-2003 5:39 AM


Maybe you should read each 'so called ' religious book, one at a time and see which you think is the truth. If there is truth to 'spirit' then if one is the truth, maybe the true one will satisfy your spirit. This also needs no 'religious' rituals, as it is just you versus the books.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by doyle, posted 10-04-2003 5:39 AM doyle has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 17 (59430)
10-04-2003 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by doyle
10-04-2003 5:39 AM


My suggestion is not to force it and to take your time. Read a lot of philosophy, maybe some religious texts, (my preference is the Eastern traditions, especially Zen Buddhism, but I also found books on the history and philosphy of science very helpful in my search), but don't waste time on anything that seems foolish to you - focus on things that seem to make sense. It might help to keep a journal - that way as you try to articulate your thoughts maybe certain "truths" will pop out at you. Don't limit your journal to just this one topic - write about current events, your feelings about people - keep the range broad.
Anyway, take heart. Been there, done that. It can be a slow process, but you'll come out okay in the end.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by doyle, posted 10-04-2003 5:39 AM doyle has not replied

John
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 17 (59459)
10-05-2003 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by doyle
10-04-2003 5:39 AM


For myself, nothing matches the beauty and sheer cleverness of Jewish Kabbalah-- not the crap that gets thrown into books about witchcraft. Aryeh Kaplan ( the spelling may be a little off ) can't be beat, since the source texts are a bit hard to get.
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
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defenderofthefaith
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 17 (62081)
10-22-2003 4:31 AM


I understand how you feel, doyle. We intelligent persons often find it hard goings with matters of faith. We often try to solve problems by virtue of our own intelligence alone. I would suggest what mike the wiz said... investigate and logically analyse all the major faiths to see which one stands up to scrutiny.
Lasting achievements won't work... and in any case they don't last. God be with you, and I pray He brings you back to Him.

Mike Holland
Member (Idle past 509 days)
Posts: 179
From: Sydney, NSW,Auistralia
Joined: 08-30-2002


Message 8 of 17 (62102)
10-22-2003 6:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by doyle
10-04-2003 5:39 AM


Lots of good advice there, though I'm not so sure about the Kabbalah! I like Omar Khayyam (Fitzgerald's first translation).
But stick with the awe.
Look at the night sky, or the sea, or a bird soaring, or whatever, and feel the awe.
Think about the eons required for you to evolve, and feel the awe.
Listen to some beautiful music and feel the shivers down your spine.
Science does not detract from the spirituality or beauty of our experiences. We know how a rainbow is formed, and what makes the stars shine, but they are still just as beautiful. And you can still get a kick from being there and knowing that you are one with the universe (whatever that means) without inventing gods or spirits.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by doyle, posted 10-04-2003 5:39 AM doyle has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18332
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 9 of 17 (87615)
02-19-2004 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by doyle
10-04-2003 5:39 AM


What do some of you seekers of the Truth suggest.
Hey, I have not given up on Christianity even though some of my opponents are very intelligent and DO bring up good points. Ya gotta go with what you feel is real. You cannot reject a God whom you do not know. Why would you get sent to Hell for that? One caution, however. Do not dismiss the Christian point of view just because you have made up your mind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by doyle, posted 10-04-2003 5:39 AM doyle has not replied

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 17 (87636)
02-19-2004 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by doyle
10-04-2003 5:39 AM


Personally, I'd reccomend a three-step program:
1) Whatever form of meditation you feel most comfortable with.
2) Lots of drugs and alcohol. (Within your body's healthy limits, natch.)
3) As much sex as your genitals can handle.
In whatever order works best for you.

"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by doyle, posted 10-04-2003 5:39 AM doyle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 02-20-2004 12:22 AM Dan Carroll has replied
 Message 13 by Rand Al'Thor, posted 02-20-2004 3:53 AM Dan Carroll has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18332
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 11 of 17 (87644)
02-20-2004 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Dan Carroll
02-19-2004 10:58 PM


Dans list of suggestions
I might add a #4 to Dans list.
4) Get a daily dose of Dans sic humor! You may laugh your way to sanity. Dan is my favorite choirboy!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Dan Carroll, posted 02-19-2004 10:58 PM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Dan Carroll, posted 02-20-2004 2:41 AM Phat has replied

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 17 (87652)
02-20-2004 2:41 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
02-20-2004 12:22 AM


Re: Dans list of suggestions
Um... in general, thanks. But in this case, I wasn't kidding. If he wants an intense physical/emotional/intellectual experience, mixed with an additional feeling that is a little too abstract to describe, (the four of which together being what I think of as "spiritual") then the above is what I'd honestly reccomend.

"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 02-20-2004 12:22 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 02-20-2004 8:23 AM Dan Carroll has replied

Rand Al'Thor
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 17 (87663)
02-20-2004 3:53 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Dan Carroll
02-19-2004 10:58 PM


LOL Dan i'd stick with 1 and 3 and leave 2 for later in life

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18332
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 14 of 17 (87679)
02-20-2004 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Dan Carroll
02-20-2004 2:41 AM


Re: Dans list of suggestions
So Dan, are you saying that sex, drugs, and meditation equal spirituality for you? Not that there's anything wrong with it...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Dan Carroll, posted 02-20-2004 2:41 AM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Dan Carroll, posted 02-20-2004 9:09 AM Phat has replied

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 17 (87686)
02-20-2004 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Phat
02-20-2004 8:23 AM


Re: Dans list of suggestions
Not in and of themselves, no. No more than two planks of wood nailed together equal spirituality for you all on their own. But the cross is a way to get to a certain place for you, and I have my own means.
Although I like the way you phrase it... makes it sound like meditation is the new rock & roll...

"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 02-20-2004 8:23 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Phat, posted 02-20-2004 11:51 AM Dan Carroll has not replied

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