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Author Topic:   Why are there no human apes alive today?
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2493 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


(1)
Message 301 of 1075 (621299)
06-24-2011 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by Mazzy
06-24-2011 6:52 PM


Re: More evolved?
I am sorry but that is rubbish. There are plenty of areas on the planet only gotton to over the last 200 years eg Australia and there are no ape people here or in Africa or anywhere else.
Do they teach Australian history in Australia? Or is that just taught here in the states?
You REALLY think that humans got to Australia and Africa ~200 years ago?
Are you saying that whites are human and anyone of color is not? Well, then there's your answer. There's plenty of "non-humans" (by your standard) all over the place.
If niches went on towards humanity, the ones left behind still had no reason to perish.
Have you met any humans? We don't even let OTHER HUMANS keep something we want. The history of the world is one group of humans showing up someplace and taking it from another group of humans.
If, let's say Hawaii, were home to some other homonid species. You REALLY think that humans would show up, see them and say "Sorry, nevermind" and leave? Hell no. Humans kill. It's what we're good at.
Surely if evolution were true some part-ape tribe should still be around
There are several apes around still. Gorillas, chimps, bonobos, orangs and humans. All of them descended from earlier forms.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by Mazzy, posted 06-24-2011 6:52 PM Mazzy has not replied

PsychMJC
Member (Idle past 1302 days)
Posts: 36
From: Modesto, California
Joined: 11-30-2007


Message 302 of 1075 (621300)
06-24-2011 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by Mazzy
06-24-2011 6:52 PM


Re: More evolved?
You mean to tell me that nobody has been to, COULD get to, or lived in Australia prior to 200 years? And you are FROM Australia? Wow, I didn't know their educational system was as broken as ours.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by Nuggin, posted 06-24-2011 7:44 PM PsychMJC has seen this message but not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 303 of 1075 (621301)
06-24-2011 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by Mazzy
06-24-2011 6:44 PM


Science not superstition.
It is all assumptive, based on probabilities and will continue to change as it pleases the stance eg chimp human split 4-5myo changed to 6-8my with Ardi.
That is how science works as opposed to Creationist myth and superstition. As new things are learned the Theory changes unlike the Biblical accounts that cannot even be consistent in any descriptions and are only consistent in being factually wrong.
Creationist modelling and assumptions are no worse.
There are no Creationist models.
It really is that simple.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by Mazzy, posted 06-24-2011 6:44 PM Mazzy has not replied

Portillo
Member (Idle past 4161 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 304 of 1075 (621303)
06-24-2011 7:21 PM


One thing I notice about human ape research is that every year it is proclaimed that the missing link has been found. What happened to the one they found last year?
quote:
"MISSING LINK" MISSING THE POINT?
by Lloyd Pye
In April 2010 the journal "Science" broke a story that a new "Missing Link" had been found in mainstream science's endless quest to prove human evolution from primates. As I've said in my "Bytes of Pye" newsletter, these are regularly trundled out because mainstream science never actually HAS the missing links they claim to have, so they seem to think that by regular repetition of the claim people will fall asleep at the wheel and assume they actually have something of consequence.
There can be only ONE legitimate "missing link" between apelike "pre"-humans and humans, and that would be an intermediate type of human found between Neanderthals, which are far more primate than human, and Cro-Magnons, which are far more human than primate. And both species overlap for 200,000 years! So everything else about missing links is part of a smoke-and-mirror campaign mainstream science uses to keep the mass of people in a state of perpetual ignorance about the true facts of human origins. There is no other way to put it.
The two partial skeletons found in a South African cave are a previously unknown species the discovery team has named Australopithecus Sediba. The discoverers claim they contain elements of both the apelike hominids from which man is believed to be descended, known as Australopithecus, and early modern humans. One of the fossils is of a male child, eight or nine years old, while the other is of an adult female in her late 20s or early 30s. They are dated between 1.95 million and 1.78 million years old, and reveal a species with long legs and a sophisticated hip bone, making them able to walk and stride like humans. But they also still had the strong hands and long arms more reminiscent of primates.
Both were just over four feet tall, with the female weighing in around 70 pounds and the child around 55 pounds. Although small, their brains appear to have been more advanced than other similar species. This combination of human and ape traits always leads to the "official" conclusion that the creatures in question have to be "prehuman" because they walk upright. To me it makes just as much sense to claim they were upright walking primates. Why? Because the exact same type of creatures are found in the fossil record for millions of years, to well beyond Lucy at 3.2 million years ago.
Upright walking primates are judged to be "prehumans" because for mainstream science to allow even the possibility of bipedal apes would be to tacitly accept the glaring reality of modern hominoids (bigfoot, yeti, etc.). This is something all scientists everywhere have to fend off as long as possible to avoid the day when they have to face the obvious conclusion that humans did not evolve here, and are in fact a very recent addition (200,000 years ago according to mitochondrial DNA research) to the flow chart of life on Earth.
Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.
Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.
Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by jar, posted 06-24-2011 7:26 PM Portillo has not replied
 Message 306 by hooah212002, posted 06-24-2011 7:30 PM Portillo has not replied
 Message 308 by Nuggin, posted 06-24-2011 7:46 PM Portillo has not replied
 Message 309 by AZPaul3, posted 06-24-2011 7:54 PM Portillo has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 305 of 1075 (621304)
06-24-2011 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by Portillo
06-24-2011 7:21 PM


You quote Lloyd Pye????
Good grief.
And you expect anyone to do more than simply laugh at your posts?
Have you really never seen a family tree?
Have you been that sheltered?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by Portillo, posted 06-24-2011 7:21 PM Portillo has not replied

hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 306 of 1075 (621305)
06-24-2011 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by Portillo
06-24-2011 7:21 PM


What happened to the one they found last year?
For every "missing link" found, you creos ask for two more.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by Portillo, posted 06-24-2011 7:21 PM Portillo has not replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2493 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 307 of 1075 (621306)
06-24-2011 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by PsychMJC
06-24-2011 7:06 PM


Re: More evolved?
I didn't know their educational system was as broken as ours.
Even more brokener.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by PsychMJC, posted 06-24-2011 7:06 PM PsychMJC has seen this message but not replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2493 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 308 of 1075 (621307)
06-24-2011 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by Portillo
06-24-2011 7:21 PM


the difference between science and media
One thing I notice about human ape research is that every year it is proclaimed that the missing link has been found. What happened to the one they found last year?
Are you aware the newspapers and magazines are interested in getting people to read their articles? That TV shows are interested in getting people to watch?
Scientists don't declare "missing link found", news outlets do. Why? Because it attracts readers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by Portillo, posted 06-24-2011 7:21 PM Portillo has not replied

AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 309 of 1075 (621308)
06-24-2011 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by Portillo
06-24-2011 7:21 PM


"MISSING LINK" MISSING THE POINT?
by Lloyd Pye
From a guy who thinks humans were created by an alien race.
Portillo, sorry friend, but this is just plain assed dumb ***!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by Portillo, posted 06-24-2011 7:21 PM Portillo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 313 by Portillo, posted 06-24-2011 11:37 PM AZPaul3 has replied

DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3776 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


Message 310 of 1075 (621311)
06-24-2011 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Nuggin
06-24-2011 5:36 PM


Re: more evolved / less evolved
I was curious what CS thought it meant in his own words. I was hoping he might provide a definition so I could determine if he really understood what was meant when we say "derived." I was worried that future conversations may have the phrase "more derived" used in an incorrect context.
I understand the role of "shard and derived" in cladistics. I wanted to be sure CS didn't replace the term "more evolved" with "more derived" but keeping the same definition of: "something better than what came before."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Nuggin, posted 06-24-2011 5:36 PM Nuggin has not replied

DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3776 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


Message 311 of 1075 (621312)
06-24-2011 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by Taq
06-24-2011 5:35 PM


Re: more evolved / less evolved
Actually the term "Great Apes" is used quite a bit eve in scientific papers. The term primates is used when talking about the order primate. On a side note, many people confuse "apes" with "monkeys" and they are not the same thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Taq, posted 06-24-2011 5:35 PM Taq has not replied

ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 4511 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


(3)
Message 312 of 1075 (621314)
06-24-2011 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by Mazzy
06-24-2011 6:36 PM


Re: More evolved?
Mazzy writes:
The reality is I am not wrong...and you cannot explain why no other mid species was lucky enough to survive till today. Not all mid species were exposed to exactly the same environment or anything, yet not one hairy species managed to survive. Sounds like a fairytale to me.
I'm about to call a Poe here.
A number of forum participants have already explained why we don't find living examples of what you seem to think of as an intermediate human species. (And explained. And explained.) It would actually be an unexpected surprise if we did find a living H. ergaster hiding out in some remote area. As has been pointed out, human beings have forced our way into every ecological niche we could, not leaving room for anything else that was there first. All our close relatives are gone, and I expect that all the other ape species will be extinct within my lifetime. (And I'm almost 50, so that's not so long, is it?)
To use the example of another genus, if we weren't around to take care of them, our friend Canis familiaris, the humble ol' dog, would most likely either be driven into extinction within a few generations by their cousins the wolf (C. lupus) and the coyote (C. latrans), or they would interbreed with them and be reabsorbed. The niche that dogs would try to fill in nature has already been taken by relatives who are better adapted. Sorry, guys, no room for you.
Or to use the language analogy again, what you're saying is something like: "I won't believe that Modern English descended from Anglo-Saxon unless you can find someone who speaks Middle English today."
ABE: Which, by the way, means that you are quite, quite wrong.
Edited by ZenMonkey, : No reason given.

Your beliefs do not effect reality and evidently reality does not effect your beliefs.
-Theodoric
Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
-Steven Colbert
I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
- John Stuart Mill

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by Mazzy, posted 06-24-2011 6:36 PM Mazzy has not replied

Portillo
Member (Idle past 4161 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 313 of 1075 (621317)
06-24-2011 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 309 by AZPaul3
06-24-2011 7:54 PM


quote:
rom a guy who thinks humans were created by an alien race.
Portillo, sorry friend, but this is just plain assed dumb ***!
I dont see whats so dumb about it, considering sciences explore the possibility of extraterrestrial life and also panspermia.
Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.
Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by AZPaul3, posted 06-24-2011 7:54 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 314 by AZPaul3, posted 06-24-2011 11:59 PM Portillo has replied
 Message 315 by Nuggin, posted 06-25-2011 12:17 AM Portillo has not replied

AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 314 of 1075 (621318)
06-24-2011 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 313 by Portillo
06-24-2011 11:37 PM


I dont see whats so dumb about it,
It's Lloyd Pye, nutjob extraordinaire. Have you read any of his books?
Do you know anything of his nutjob views? Do you really want to use him as a source and be seen in the same light?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 313 by Portillo, posted 06-24-2011 11:37 PM Portillo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 319 by Portillo, posted 06-25-2011 2:58 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2493 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 315 of 1075 (621319)
06-25-2011 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 313 by Portillo
06-24-2011 11:37 PM


I dont see whats so dumb about (the idea that humans were created by an alien race), considering sciences explore the possibility of extraterrestrial life and also panspermia.
Well, let's go over it.
First, panspermia is the idea that the original extremely basic building blocks of life arose elsewhere and ended up here. That's not the same thing.
Second, there is a TON of evidence supporting human evolution and, for that matter, all evolution of life on Earth.
Third, assuming you disregard the evidence of evolution occurring on Earth (presumably because you disbelieve in evolution) and go with the claim that OTHER life came and made life here -- you STILL need to explain where that OTHER life came from.
You've blundered into infinite regression. Either ALL other life arose from OTHER life infinitely back so that there is no beginning. -or- At some point SOME life SOMEWHERE must have evolved, in which case you are accepting evolution and have lost your reason to make the argument in the first place.

This message is a reply to:
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