Straggler writes:
Almost certainly in reality. In almost all cases. But are the two necessarily the same thing in principle?
When Dembski's the one talking about them? Yes.
Is it possible to argue in favour of Intelligent Design whilst also saying the the bible is obvioulsy a ridiculous fantasy if taken literally?
Of course, anything's possible. But we're talking about Dembski here, not just a random ID'er. And you're not gonna tell me he thinks this is the case.
I would say yes. In fact I would go so far as to say that there are people who do make the distinction. Isn't Behe and his molecular level irreducible complexity such an example. It is my understanding that he accepts most of evolution as per standard scientific consensus. He just invokes ID at the molecular level to achieve it.
But we're not talking about Behe, we're talking about Dembski.
I am trying to distinguish between the creationist beliefs of these guys (e.g. Adam and Eve actually existed) and what they are claiming as evidence of ID (e.g. irreducible complexity at the molecular level, conservation of information theories etc. etc.)
There is no distinction. For what Dembski actually means when he says "he has evidence for ID", is that "he has evidence for creation".
Whilst I agree with you that the two will be inevitably conflated in practise I don't think this need necessarily be the case in principle.
Of course. in Dembski's view however (and he is the one being discussed here), they are.
I think ID can stand apart from creationism as a belief system.
Sure it can. It can only lead to three things though:
Infinite regression (Aliens making aliens making aliens making...)
Admitting the designer arose by evolution (thus making their point moot)
Saying god is the designer (proving it's creationism)
I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead
™ Version 4.2
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