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Author Topic:   War and Morality. Al Qaeda v USA
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 4 of 175 (621344)
06-25-2011 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
06-25-2011 5:57 AM


Stop and think
How much money does it cost to create, build, maintain and use smart weapons?
How much does it cost to create, build, maintain and use an improvised explosive device?
If you are a poor peasant fighting to drive the invaders out of your country, which of those weapons is in the realm of possibilities?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 06-25-2011 5:57 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 06-25-2011 1:02 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 7 of 175 (621376)
06-25-2011 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Phat
06-25-2011 1:02 PM


Re: Stop and think
When all you have is a family goat, would you not want to protect it?
If your nation was invaded, would you not want to try to expel the invaders?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 06-25-2011 1:02 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Phat, posted 06-25-2011 2:25 PM jar has replied
 Message 166 by Phat, posted 07-23-2011 12:45 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 9 of 175 (621383)
06-25-2011 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Phat
06-25-2011 2:25 PM


Re: Stop and think
Do you know what a CWO is?
Factually, the gentleman is incorrect when he says, "We don’t want to be in Afghanistan, we have never invaded a country for the purpose of occupying it or taking its land or resources. " and also when he says "We are there because it was the birthplace of the plot to destroy the World Trade Center and ruin the financial district of America. "
We have invaded countries to take the land and resources, and the list is quite long and includes much of what is today the US.
The evidence shows that much of the planning and training for the 9-11 attacks took place all over the world, Indonesia, Canada, Spain, England, France and the US as well as Brazil IIRC.
And do you really think that the best way to get folk to love us is to invade their country?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Phat, posted 06-25-2011 2:25 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by GDR, posted 06-25-2011 4:28 PM jar has replied
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 06-25-2011 5:19 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 11 of 175 (621397)
06-25-2011 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by GDR
06-25-2011 4:28 PM


Re: Stop and think
Well, border security is pretty much a joke anyway. Non of the participants seem to have traveled illegally during the event.
But yes, I can document that but it will take considerable time that I'm simply not likely to invest. But it's all available in the tens of thousands of pages that were published on the investigations.
By the way, the incident regarding terrorists crossing from Canada that I know of was unrelated to 9-11 and was a West Coast incident.
My point is that Afghanistan played almost no role in the 9-11 attack or any of the preparations.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by GDR, posted 06-25-2011 4:28 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by GDR, posted 06-25-2011 4:49 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 13 of 175 (621401)
06-25-2011 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by GDR
06-25-2011 4:49 PM


Re: Stop and think
Whatever.
The point is that none of the countries INCLUDING Iraq and Afghanistan and yes, even Canada had anything to do with the events of 9-11. The folk involved, particularly in the planning, were mobile people that moved freely throughout the world, and that the majority of the training and planning happened in the US, Indonesia and Germany, yet TTBOMK we have not yet invaded any of them.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 12 by GDR, posted 06-25-2011 4:49 PM GDR has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 15 of 175 (621405)
06-25-2011 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Phat
06-25-2011 5:19 PM


Re: Stop and think
We could have gone after the individuals.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 06-25-2011 5:19 PM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 24 of 175 (621530)
06-26-2011 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Phat
06-26-2011 6:39 PM


Re: Hating the US: Still In Vogue?
Would invading their country be a reason?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Phat, posted 06-26-2011 6:39 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Phat, posted 06-26-2011 7:28 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 26 of 175 (621537)
06-26-2011 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Phat
06-26-2011 7:28 PM


Re: Hating the US: Still In Vogue?
Read what you wrote.
Al Qaeda is not Afghanistan, it is not Iraq.
Name the Middle eastern countries that the US has not invaded or controlled.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Phat, posted 06-26-2011 7:28 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Dogmafood, posted 06-26-2011 7:56 PM jar has replied
 Message 29 by Phat, posted 06-26-2011 8:00 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 30 of 175 (621543)
06-26-2011 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Dogmafood
06-26-2011 7:56 PM


Re: Hating the US: Still In Vogue?
Partly.
I think their actions were wrong but I can certainly see their position.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Dogmafood, posted 06-26-2011 7:56 PM Dogmafood has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 31 of 175 (621544)
06-26-2011 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Phat
06-26-2011 8:00 PM


Re: The Ideology Behind Global Terrorism
A base was in Afghanistan. They also used all the available resources in this mobile world and so were not tied to Afghanistan in any major way.
But Al Qaeda is still not Afghanistan or Iraq.
We did not invade Al Qaeda.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Phat, posted 06-26-2011 8:00 PM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 45 of 175 (621599)
06-27-2011 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Nuggin
06-27-2011 2:58 AM


Re: Soft Targets vs Terrorism
However civilian targets have long been recognized, particularly by the US and its allies as viable targets. Granted, with the availability of highly targetable weapons we may do less of that than we did when I was young but it is still done.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Nuggin, posted 06-27-2011 2:58 AM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Nuggin, posted 06-27-2011 9:36 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 50 of 175 (621606)
06-27-2011 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Nuggin
06-27-2011 9:36 AM


Re: Soft Targets vs Terrorism
But we also targeted workers in factories, supply chains, transportation systems, people in villages that support enemies as well as whole villages themselves; and continue to see 'collateral losses'.
The key thing that I don't see getting discussed is the required change in paradigm and rules of conflict that will be necessary in the future. We are still fighting the current wars by the rules of the last war. That is a sure recipe for failure.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Nuggin, posted 06-27-2011 9:36 AM Nuggin has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 56 of 175 (621613)
06-27-2011 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by fearandloathing
06-27-2011 11:24 AM


Re: Xtreme veiws
Just a small correction. The pledge was changed during Ike's administration but it was done by Congress and driven mostly by the Knights of Columbus.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by fearandloathing, posted 06-27-2011 11:24 AM fearandloathing has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 81 of 175 (621703)
06-28-2011 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Phat
06-28-2011 8:43 AM


Re: War is never pretty
Perhaps America could have won public relations points with the rest of the world by accepting the slap on the cheek without retaliation. I agree that it would have been cheaper and more rational to do so. But what do your tell the families of 3000 killed? Do you tell them that we are sorry that it happened but that we don't have the power to do anything about it?
No one has ever said that the US should have done nothing after 9-11, what folk have been saying is that what we did do was really, really juvenile.
What do the police tell folk after a robbery?
What did the police say after Oklahoma City?
Edited by jar, : find another way around the censoring that is now so common at EvC

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 06-28-2011 8:43 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 104 of 175 (621876)
06-29-2011 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Phat
06-29-2011 11:23 AM


Distinctions
Of course.
The US is a Nation State while Al Qaeda is a political organization.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Phat, posted 06-29-2011 11:23 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Phat, posted 06-29-2011 11:42 AM jar has replied

  
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