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Author Topic:   Does the Darwinian theory require modification or replacement?
AZPaul3
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Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 651 of 760 (622258)
07-01-2011 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 650 by zi ko
07-01-2011 10:18 PM


So Test!
My hypothesis is testable.
How? What would be the protocol?
Have you put together experiment plan?
Will you share it with us?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 650 by zi ko, posted 07-01-2011 10:18 PM zi ko has not replied

AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 676 of 760 (622544)
07-04-2011 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 653 by shadow71
07-03-2011 9:45 AM


Re: Natural Engineering
In message 643 I present evidence of dedicated, nonrandom, beneficial change.
In that some organisms may have developed an evolutionary mechanism by random mutation that allows them to identify and combat parasites by incorporating a portion of the invaders genome into their own thereby allowing them and their offspring to quickly identify like invaders and have responses ready that were already learned by random mutation and selection.
The mechanism appears to be specific to specific classes of pathogens and thus can be called dedicated. The evolved processes have been developed and put in place by random trial and error over many millions of years and are thus now non-randomly invoked by the presence of the specific pathogens.
None of this in any way indicates any directed intelligence performing predetermined modifications to the host genome for specific pre-need purposes.
What if any effect does this proof have on the modification of the MS?
None whatsoever.
Finally, am I misrepresenting Shapiro in message 643?
That does seem to be your purpose here.
What changes do you think your references would require of the Modern Synthesis?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 653 by shadow71, posted 07-03-2011 9:45 AM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 677 by zi ko, posted 07-05-2011 1:09 AM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 687 by shadow71, posted 07-05-2011 5:21 PM AZPaul3 has replied

AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 678 of 760 (622552)
07-05-2011 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 677 by zi ko
07-05-2011 1:09 AM


Answers
AZPaul3 writes:
What changes do you think your references would require of the Modern Synthesis?
zi ko writes:
Where are the data of this trial and error procedure?
You answer my question first and I'll answer yours in kind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 677 by zi ko, posted 07-05-2011 1:09 AM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 679 by zi ko, posted 07-05-2011 8:54 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 683 of 760 (622617)
07-05-2011 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 681 by zi ko
07-05-2011 11:21 AM


Information Trial and Error
Are there ny data that exclude any information participation in procedure of evolution?
In a broad sense the "information" content of the genome changes with random mutation (to include insertion, frame-shift etc.) and the resulting phenotype is matched against the "information" of the environment. The "information" in the environment determines if the "information" in the genome continues as part of the larger population or if it is lessened or eliminated from the larger population.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 681 by zi ko, posted 07-05-2011 11:21 AM zi ko has not replied

AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 690 of 760 (622651)
07-05-2011 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 687 by shadow71
07-05-2011 5:21 PM


Re: Natural Engineering
Not trying to be a jerk, but can you show by data that the processes have been developed and put in place by RANDOM TRIAL AND ERROR over many millions of years and are thus now nonrandomly invoked by the presence of the specific pathogens?
I have a thick skin. No 'jerk' assumed.
If you comprehended the papers you have been citing you would have answered your own question. All of them cite the usual and customary mechanisms to evolve what can now be seen as embedded non-random responses to external stimuli.
Similar, indeed, to the evolved non-random responses some people have to certain plant pollen: blind chemical cascades evolved to fight the effects of some specifically irritating external stimuli.
It seems to me to be a contradiction that the presence of specific pathogens would suddenly lead to a nonrandom process.
If you comprehended the papers you have been citing you would see the error in your statement.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 687 by shadow71, posted 07-05-2011 5:21 PM shadow71 has not replied

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