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Author | Topic: New theory about evolution between creationism and evolution. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
zi ko Member (Idle past 3646 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
How is it being done if not by neural system? How is it being done by the neural system? The burden of proof is on you.
When i see a car working , i suppose i don't need to relate how is is working to be able to say that cars exist. Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.
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Taq Member Posts: 10077 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
When i see a car working , i suppose i don't need to relate how is is working to be able to say that cars exist. You would need to relate how a car produces rainbows if you claimed that cars are responsible for rainbows. You claim that neural cells guide mutations in germ cells. Either evidence the claim or withdraw it.
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3646 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
So Epigenetics is where you should adress at, when you are asking for details about the mechanism. zi ko, you are the one pushing neural systems as a vector for genetic change, not me. It is you who carries the burden of proof, not me. If you cannot produce the evidence then you have nothing. And so far you have nothing. Until you produce direct positive evidence (not negative evidence on other mechanisms) your idea is mere speculation, nothing more. MY QUESTION IS QUITE CLEAR. How is it being done if not by neural system? Not my problem. If you want to insist that neural systems are involved then I have two words for you: Prove it! My observation on which i based my theory was that neural system unquestionably transfers information from environment to genome area during epigenetic functions. thjs is accepted by all. This fact and its mechanism i am not obliged to prove. Somebody can say wrightly that my theory is incomplete. I have to prove that information alone or information through empathy can affect DNA sequence. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by zi ko, : No reason given.
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3646 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
Re: DOUPTING IS THE BEAUTY OF SCIENCE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When i see a car working , i suppose i don't need to relate how is is working to be able to say that cars exist. You would need to relate how a car produces rainbows if you claimed that cars are responsible for rainbows. You claim that neural cells guide mutations in germ cells. Either evidence the claim or withdraw it. May i suppose that you accept there is a car (the mechanism that i need not to prove its existance)?After having agreed on this we can procced further.Let's see if my claims are like rainbows.Maybe my idea about empathy is wrong. OK. It can be proved and then can be neglected. That is falsifiability of a theory. What is like rainbow? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8554 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
My observation on which i based my theory was that neural system unquestionably transfers information from environment to genome area during epigenetic functions. thjs is accepted by all. This is the falacious part, zi ko. No one has observed or documented neural functions as a vector for genetic change. It is not accepted by anyone. I think you need to re-read your sources with a more critical eye. And if I may, please. Your web site is a bit hard to read. When I view it there are complete sentences with no spacing whatsoever. I understand English is not your native language (though you do express yourself well enough) and as such this detracts from your presentation. I suggest you have a friend more familiar with English edit your web page for proper English mechanics. This will help with making your speculation (errant as it is ) more clear for us. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3646 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
You are right about my language.
My website has abroblem with pasting. Unfortunately i saw it rather lately. Thank you anyway for telling me. This is the falacious part, zi ko. No one has observed or documented neural functions as a vector for genetic change. It is not accepted by anyone. I think you need to re-read your sources with a more critical eye. this is a crucial point. I agree, nobody has written anything about neural function as a vector for genetic change positively or negatively.But i quote from wikipedia: "DevelopmentSomatic epigenetic inheritance, particularly through DNA methylation and chromatin remodeling, is very important in the development of multicellular eukaryotic organisms. The genome sequence is static (with some notable exceptions), but cells differentiate into many different types, which perform different functions, and respond differently to the environment and intercellular signalling.(bolding is mine)" "EVOLUTIONEpigenetic changes have also been observed to occur in response to environmental exposure" "The "Baldwin effect" is better understood in evo-devo (evolutionary developmental biology) literature as a scenario in which a character or trait change occurring in an organism as a result of its interaction with its environment becomes gradually assimilated into its developmental genetic or epigenetic repertoire (Simpson, 1953; Newman, 2002). In the words of Daniel Dennett," All these make me, legitimately i think to believe that generally it is accepted as a fact the idea of information flow from environmen to genome and nobody had changed my mind up to now. In message 174 about the same subject was dealt. My comments were not answered yet. I am waiting.
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3646 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
Tank you for informing me. It seems there is a problem in pasting.
Edited by zi ko, : No reason given. Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8554 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
In message 174 about the same subject was dealt. My comments were not answered yet. I am waiting. I assume you meant your Message 173. I thought Wounded King's response to part of your message (in Message 174) was more than adequate. I addressed the rest of your message in my Message 175.
All these make me, legitimately i think to believe that generally it is accepted as a fact the idea of information flow from environmen to genome ... What these studies show is that DNA methylation and chromatin remodeling can activate some genes and quiesce others in response to various external biochemical stimuli. Nothing more.
... and nobody had changed my mind up to now. Good for you. Right now you have nothing but a speculation. You may be right, though I doubt it. Go for it. Prove your case.
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Wounded King Member Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined: |
Don't you think the precoutions taken mean something? Yes, they mean that the authors took pains to control their experiment for every variable that might affect health and lifespan, two of the phenotypic characteristics they were interested in in those studies. This doesn't require the genome to 'know' anything about the environment. Things about an organism's lifestyle are normally experienced directly by the organism, i.e. day night cycles and sleeping patterns, diet and exercise regime. The neural system is not required to mediate this information in many cases although it does in some. You are adding another unneccessary layer of complexity. Organisms interact with their environment, that is how information from the environment is imparted to the genome, through differential success of genetic variants in a specific environment. There are published models for how information about the environment can be incroporated through natural selection (Frank, 2009). TTFN, WK
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3646 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
Don't you think the precoutions taken mean something? Yes, they mean that the authors took pains to control their experiment for every variable that might affect health and lifespan, two of the phenotypic characteristics they were interested in in those studies. As i see it the authors believed that variation in life style would affect phenotypic characteristics, through affecting epigenetic areas of genome. Is it any different from what i am sayng ?
This doesn't require the genome to 'know' anything about the environment. Things about an organism's lifestyle are normally experienced directly by the organism, i.e. day night cycles and sleeping patterns, diet and exercise regime. The neural system is not required to mediate this information in many cases although it does in some. Surely it "does not reqire ....."environment". It is just how nature works, according to epigenetics and my theory.'Normal direct experience': exactly it is what i am saying. 'Neural system: how else life style could affect epigenome? You are adding another unneccessary layer of complexity. Organisms interact with their environment, that is how information from the environment is imparted to the genome, through differential success of genetic variants in a specific environment. It is necessary to my theory, as i don't think natural selection is the only way of information transfer from environment to genome. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by zi ko, : No reason given. Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3646 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
What these studies show is that DNA methylation and chromatin remodeling can activate some genes and quiesce others in response to various external biochemical stimuli. Nothing more. Not only. Tthey prove also that the authors believe that life style (obviously by neural system- how else it coulld be done?) can affect epigenome areas. It is simple as that. Edited by zi ko, : No reason given. Edited by zi ko, : No reason given. Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.
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Wounded King Member Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined: |
Tthey prove also that the authors believe that life style (obviously by neural system- how else it coulld be done?) can affect epigenome areas. It is simple as that. Sorry Zi Ko, I've already pointed out to you why this is wrong, either you really can't understand plain english or you are just lying at this point. The papers they referred to were not looking at the epigenome, they were looking at health and longevity. The quotes you gave were from the introduction talking about the work of others, not the epigeentic factors studied in that paper. TTFN, WK
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Larni Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
You've already stated that you are only speculating in the other thread.
Time to end things, I think. Edited by Larni, : Spellink
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Taq Member Posts: 10077 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Not only. Tthey prove also that the authors believe that life style (obviously by neural system- how else it coulld be done?) can affect epigenome areas. It is simple as that.
Once again, epigenetics does not explain the difference between species. The theory you are trying to replace DOES explain the differences between species. You seem to have a problem here. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 10077 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
May i suppose that you accept there is a car (the mechanism that i need not to prove its existance)? No one is doubting that empathy exists. What we doubt is that empathy produces specific and beneficial changes in the DNA sequence of sperm and ova. Using my analogy above, we are not doubting the existence of cars or rainbows just as we do not doubt mutations or empathy. What we doubt is the claim that cars CAUSE rainbows just as we doubt that empathy guides mutations.
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