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Author Topic:   Information's role in evolution.Should we put it more in the picture?
ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 4538 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


(1)
Message 16 of 192 (621202)
06-24-2011 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by zi ko
06-21-2011 12:47 PM


This argument was pretty much refuted in your previous (though still active) New theory about evolution between creationism and evolution. thread. How is starting another thread saying the same thing going to advance your position?
What you have is a solution without a problem. First you have to make the case that current scientific theories are inadequate to explain the specific phenomenon of heritable change over time, as well as the phenomena of material change in general. You have not done this. Even had you done so, you still haven't described a credible mechanism for how any of this informational transfer actually works. Simply saying that it could work that way is not the same thing as providing evidence that it does.

Your beliefs do not effect reality and evidently reality does not effect your beliefs.
-Theodoric
Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
-Steven Colbert
I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
- John Stuart Mill

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by zi ko, posted 06-21-2011 12:47 PM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by zi ko, posted 06-25-2011 10:33 AM ZenMonkey has replied

  
ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 4538 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


Message 27 of 192 (621372)
06-25-2011 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by zi ko
06-25-2011 10:33 AM


You're referring to this article in The Boston Review. I certainly don't know enough biochemistry or genetics to determine whether or not his claims have merit, nor can I tell exactly how they relate to your own hypothesis. I leave it to others with more knowledge to make an assessment.

Your beliefs do not effect reality and evidently reality does not effect your beliefs.
-Theodoric
Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
-Steven Colbert
I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
- John Stuart Mill

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by zi ko, posted 06-25-2011 10:33 AM zi ko has not replied

  
ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 4538 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


Message 40 of 192 (621620)
06-27-2011 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by zi ko
06-27-2011 12:06 PM


Re: Empathy Transfer
zi ko writes:
My new ideas are the "thinking neural system" and empathy role on evolution
And since the overwhelming majority of life on this planet, past and present, has evolved and flourished without anything like a nervous system or neural network of any kind, your conjecture has dropped dead before leaving the starting gate. This horse is dead no matter how hard you beat it.

Your beliefs do not effect reality and evidently reality does not effect your beliefs.
-Theodoric
Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
-Steven Colbert
I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
- John Stuart Mill

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by zi ko, posted 06-27-2011 12:06 PM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by zi ko, posted 06-28-2011 8:28 AM ZenMonkey has not replied

  
ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 4538 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


Message 63 of 192 (621725)
06-28-2011 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by zi ko
06-28-2011 12:17 PM


Re: Information's role
zi ko writes:
OK. How do you suppose is being done? By information transfer or otherwise?
It's done by natural selection, of course. Information transfer has absolutely nothing to do with natural selection, and if you actually understood natural selection you'd see that the cognitive processes of individual organisms have very little if anything to do with it. In fact, the whole beauty of natural selection is that it works as an unguided, blind process, with no input from or concern for those being selected.
Now if you want to discuss cultural evolution and Dawkins's meme hypothesis, that's something else entirely.

Your beliefs do not effect reality and evidently reality does not effect your beliefs.
-Theodoric
Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
-Steven Colbert
I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
- John Stuart Mill

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by zi ko, posted 06-28-2011 12:17 PM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by zi ko, posted 06-29-2011 12:00 AM ZenMonkey has replied

  
ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 4538 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


Message 64 of 192 (621728)
06-28-2011 1:09 PM


Science fair projects that don't win first prize.
Honestly, this whole discussion reminds me very much of my 5th grade science fair project, which consisted in its entirety of a poster with drawing of a big vertical spiral, like a spring stood on end. As I remember it, the accompanying text said that if time had a corkscrew or spiral shape, then we could travel through time simply by jumping from one level of that spiral to the next. End of hypothesis.
My memory might be faulty after so many years, but I think that there was reason that my display didn't feature a working model of a time machine based on my hypothesis, and it wasn't because my father didn't have a workshop in the garage.

Your beliefs do not effect reality and evidently reality does not effect your beliefs.
-Theodoric
Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
-Steven Colbert
I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
- John Stuart Mill

  
ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 4538 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


Message 73 of 192 (621789)
06-29-2011 12:39 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by zi ko
06-29-2011 12:00 AM


Re: DOUPTING IS THE BEAUTY OF SCIENCE
zi ko writes:
I am am afraid that this was the trap that Darwinists had dropped in. It was so easy ,tempting and beautiful to believe and to throw away any embarassing doupt...
Um, it also happens to be true.
quote:
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
-- Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by zi ko, posted 06-29-2011 12:00 AM zi ko has not replied

  
ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 4538 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


Message 86 of 192 (622065)
06-30-2011 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by zi ko
06-30-2011 12:05 PM


Re: Information's role
zi ko writes:
"I don't denay natural selection. But i don't think is the only way. "
Then demonstrate, WITH DATA, what the other way is. "
The THIRD WAY.
Your reply appears to be missing something. I think that it's called data.

Your beliefs do not effect reality and evidently reality does not effect your beliefs.
-Theodoric
Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
-Steven Colbert
I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
- John Stuart Mill

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by zi ko, posted 06-30-2011 12:05 PM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by zi ko, posted 06-30-2011 12:36 PM ZenMonkey has not replied

  
ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 4538 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


Message 110 of 192 (623457)
07-10-2011 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by zi ko
07-10-2011 2:57 PM


Re: I need clear answers
zi ko writes:
No evidence unfortunately. Only speculation at present.
This statement is the best and most concise statement of your position to date. Thank you for clarifying.
I suggest that you cut and paste this and use it for all future replies on your part. It will save time.

Your beliefs do not effect reality and evidently reality does not effect your beliefs.
-Theodoric
Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
-Steven Colbert
I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
- John Stuart Mill

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by zi ko, posted 07-10-2011 2:57 PM zi ko has not replied

  
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