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Author Topic:   New theory about evolution between creationism and evolution.
Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 226 of 433 (623857)
07-14-2011 1:49 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by zi ko
07-14-2011 1:18 AM


Re: Epigenetic information flow from environment to genome
Random mutations are not excluded, but most of them are in away directet by information.
How are they directed, and by what information?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by zi ko, posted 07-14-2011 1:18 AM zi ko has not replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 227 of 433 (623866)
07-14-2011 4:52 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by zi ko
07-14-2011 1:18 AM


Re: Epigenetic information flow from environment to genome
We should not forget there wasn't any research specifically on neural system intervention, propably because of the difficulties the matter is presenting.
What difficulties particularly? The ones that come to my mind are the 'absolutely no evidence for a role' one and the 'no plausible mechanism' one.
there is a type of information transfer from environment to genome.
...
This what i was sayng all the time.
If you believe this then I suggest you go and re-read your opening post. You said a whole lot more, most of it totally made up off the top of your head, with not a scintilla of evidence to support any of it.
Direct- random: Environmental Information , by altogether biochemical pathways always, direct evolution. Natural selection is always present. Random mutations are not excluded, but most of them are in away directet by information.
If this is supposed to be a clear explanation with defined terms then I'm afraid it is a failure of epic proportions. At least it has the advantage of brevity.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by zi ko, posted 07-14-2011 1:18 AM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by zi ko, posted 07-14-2011 11:47 AM Wounded King has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 228 of 433 (623874)
07-14-2011 6:53 AM


[sigh]This is just going around and around, now. Zi has been told about evidence and is not talking it on board and I don't think she ever will.[/sigh]

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by zi ko, posted 07-14-2011 11:30 AM Larni has not replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3619 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 229 of 433 (623891)
07-14-2011 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 224 by AZPaul3
07-13-2011 12:01 PM


Re: "Theory" in Science
In view of your 'evidence' against i would like to make a question:
In case that one or more researchers proved that nerous system does intervenes in evolution process and empathy has effect on genome, how would you call my"speculations" then?

Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by AZPaul3, posted 07-13-2011 12:01 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-14-2011 11:56 AM zi ko has replied
 Message 238 by Larni, posted 07-14-2011 1:04 PM zi ko has not replied
 Message 240 by Taq, posted 07-14-2011 3:12 PM zi ko has not replied
 Message 242 by AZPaul3, posted 07-14-2011 5:49 PM zi ko has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3619 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 230 of 433 (623892)
07-14-2011 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 228 by Larni
07-14-2011 6:53 AM


The same answer as my message 229.

Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.

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 Message 228 by Larni, posted 07-14-2011 6:53 AM Larni has not replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3619 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 231 of 433 (623893)
07-14-2011 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Wounded King
07-14-2011 4:52 AM


Re: Epigenetic information flow from environment to genome
What difficulties particularly? The ones that come to my mind are the 'absolutely no evidence for a role' one and the 'no plausible mechanism' one.
I mean the inherit difficulties in searching of neural system.
If you believe this then I suggest you go and re-read your opening post. You said a whole lot more, most of it totally made up off the top of your head, with not a scintilla of evidence to support any of it.
What do you mean? I can't see what i had changed.
Direct- random: Environmental Information , by altogether biochemical pathways always, direct evolution. Natural selection is always present. Random mutations are not excluded, but most of them are in away directet by information.
If this is supposed to be a clear explanation with defined terms then I'm afraid it is a failure of epic proportions. At least it has the advantage of brevity.
Is there anything you dont understand?
Edited by zi ko, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Wounded King, posted 07-14-2011 4:52 AM Wounded King has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by Wounded King, posted 07-14-2011 1:00 PM zi ko has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 232 of 433 (623894)
07-14-2011 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 229 by zi ko
07-14-2011 11:27 AM


Re: "Theory" in Science
In view of your 'evidence' against i would like to make a question:
In case that one or more researchers proved that nerous system does intervenes in evolution process and empathy has effect on genome, how would you call my"speculations" then?
A lucky guess with a ridiculous coincidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by zi ko, posted 07-14-2011 11:27 AM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by zi ko, posted 07-14-2011 12:34 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3619 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 233 of 433 (623897)
07-14-2011 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Taq
07-13-2011 11:54 AM


Re: Epigenetic information flow from environment to genome
As for the papers you have cited , i understand that environmental interaction thrugh diet does not require nervous system intervention. But speculating about i inferred that some types of life style require this intervention ,as i suppose you had said as well.
How do differences in lifestyle specifically guide the process of mutagenesis in germ cells so that specific beneficial mutations are produced? You keep forgetting what your speculation actually is.
Cooney et all ,if i understand well, state that nutritients, humididity, day circles, life style, ect, can have an inpact on phenotypic genome. So there does exist a mechanism of serving this function , although the authors didn't give any information about. Do you think i have to answer for them. I f i am wrong in explaining them , you should show me up. I didn't use the words mutagenesis or beneficial or random mutations at this point of discussion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Taq, posted 07-13-2011 11:54 AM Taq has not replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3619 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 234 of 433 (623903)
07-14-2011 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by New Cat's Eye
07-14-2011 11:56 AM


Re: DOUPTING IS THE BEAUTY OF SCIENCE
In view of your 'evidence' against i would like to make a question:
In case that one or more researchers proved that nerous system does intervenes in evolution process and empathy has effect on genome, how would you call my"speculations" then?
A lucky guess with a ridiculous coincidence.
Surely a very "bad" luck for some "believers" of dogmatic and suspicious science.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-14-2011 11:56 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-14-2011 12:37 PM zi ko has not replied
 Message 236 by Panda, posted 07-14-2011 12:41 PM zi ko has not replied
 Message 241 by Taq, posted 07-14-2011 3:16 PM zi ko has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 235 of 433 (623904)
07-14-2011 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by zi ko
07-14-2011 12:34 PM


Re: DOUPTING IS THE BEAUTY OF SCIENCE
Surely a very "bad" luck for some "believers" of dogmatic and suspicious science.
How pompous!
You really do think that your speculations have some value and that the opposition to them is because of their nature
That's hilarious!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by zi ko, posted 07-14-2011 12:34 PM zi ko has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 236 of 433 (623906)
07-14-2011 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by zi ko
07-14-2011 12:34 PM


Re: DOUPTING IS THE BEAUTY OF SCIENCE
zi ko writes:
Surely a very "bad" luck for some "believers" of dogmatic and suspicious science.
And when it is shown that the moon IS made of cheese, then we will laugh in the faces of all those stupid scientists that claimed otherwise.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by zi ko, posted 07-14-2011 12:34 PM zi ko has not replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 237 of 433 (623911)
07-14-2011 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by zi ko
07-14-2011 11:47 AM


Re: Epigenetic information flow from environment to genome
I mean the inherit difficulties in searching of neural system.
Like what? There is a vast amount of research into the workings of the neural system and an equally vast amount into genetics and epigenetics including epigenetics within the nervous system. None of these researches suggest that a mechanism such as the one your theory would require, but which you can't describe, exists.
I agree that there is an inherent difficulty in finding things that don't exist, but that is hardly in favour of your position.
Is there anything you dont understand?
I quite clearly said what would be useful in moving this discussion forward ...
WK writes:
Well what meaning do you give to the word 'direct' or indeed to the term 'non-random'? If you simply mean that not all mutations are equiprobable then it is trivially obvious but has nothing to do with what you have been talking about. A definition of what you mean by information would also be very useful, and possibly what you mean by epigenetics.
You addressed absolutely none of these things in your word salad response. You used many of the words but not in a coherent way that would allow anyone to understand what you mean.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by zi ko, posted 07-14-2011 11:47 AM zi ko has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 238 of 433 (623913)
07-14-2011 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by zi ko
07-14-2011 11:27 AM


Re: "Theory" in Science
Untill that time comes you will be known as somebody without the slightest scientific acumen.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by zi ko, posted 07-14-2011 11:27 AM zi ko has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-14-2011 2:31 PM Larni has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 239 of 433 (623921)
07-14-2011 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by Larni
07-14-2011 1:04 PM


Re: "Theory" in Science
Untill that time comes you will be known as somebody without the slightest scientific acumen.
You forgot to mention the conceit...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Larni, posted 07-14-2011 1:04 PM Larni has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 240 of 433 (623932)
07-14-2011 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by zi ko
07-14-2011 11:27 AM


Re: "Theory" in Science
In view of your 'evidence' against i would like to make a question:
In case that one or more researchers proved that nerous system does intervenes in evolution process and empathy has effect on genome, how would you call my"speculations" then?
We want to see evidence, not fantasies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by zi ko, posted 07-14-2011 11:27 AM zi ko has not replied

  
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