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Author Topic:   Climate Change Delusion
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 8 of 52 (624243)
07-16-2011 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Malvern
07-15-2011 1:15 PM


Malvern writes:
I've read all too many articles on what will happen with melting glaciers, rising sea levels, increased CO2 levels, etc, etc. So the brakes on the Climate Change Cement Truck have been released and we think we'll throw out some scientific spike strip and stop it? Really?
I have also read and seen much on the climate change issue and think some of it is alarmist "the sky is falling" talk. The bottom line is in our past there has been much more co2 and warmer temps.
source
We will adapt to our ever changing climate, but can we provide for all the people who live on our planet? Nature will balance the scales one way or another, even if that means billions of people dying. I don't see anyway we wont use every last available fossil fuel until they are all gone. When they are all gone what will we do? If we can't find alternatives for the fertilizers we obtain from fossil fuels, often as by-products, then there will no doubt be mass starvation, war over fresh water ...ect
Greenhouse gases are one of many problems we face, but I feel we should be more worried about pollution, deforestation, overfishing to name a few. If we do not become better stewards of our planet then future populations will surely suffer from the mistakes of their predecessors. The more we poison our oceans and eco systems then the harder it will be to find the proper balance of population vs available resources.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Malvern, posted 07-15-2011 1:15 PM Malvern has not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 21 of 52 (624562)
07-18-2011 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by frako
07-18-2011 4:56 PM


Re: Giving them a chance.
Hi Frako,
I don't think shooting co2 into space would be cost effective, it all comes down to money sadly. I remember seeing a few things on algae and always thought that it may help us in cleaning up power plants that use fossil fuels, and actually provide an alternative source of energy as a by-product.
quote:
Fed a generous helping of CO2-laden emissions, courtesy of the power plant's exhaust stack, the algae grow quickly even in the wan rays of a New England sun. The cleansed exhaust bubbles skyward, but with 40% less CO2 (a larger cut than the Kyoto treaty mandates) and another bonus: 86% less nitrous oxide.
After the CO2 is soaked up like a sponge, the algae is harvested daily. From that harvest, a combustible vegetable oil is squeezed out: biodiesel for automobiles. Berzin hands a visitor two vials one with algal biodiesel, a clear, slightly yellowish liquid, the other with the dried green flakes that remained. Even that dried remnant can be further reprocessed to create ethanol, also used for transportation.
If we were to choose not to process the algae into fuel then its biomass would contain the sequestered co2 and we could then dispose/store it. It could probably be used for many things including food and fertilizer as opposed to re using it as fuel also, but I am not sure of how it could be used so it wouldn't release the co2 it had stored.
AbE... I think you mean RAIL Gun...not HARP???
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by frako, posted 07-18-2011 4:56 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by frako, posted 07-18-2011 5:26 PM fearandloathing has not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 24 of 52 (624681)
07-19-2011 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Malvern
07-19-2011 11:14 AM


Re: Giving them a chance.
Set up a test site. Tell the people there that you want to store a tasteless, odorless gas underground (and under pressure?) that has the potential to kill them.
You should Google underground gas storage and you will see we already store large amounts that way already in many countries. Natural gas is also odorless, odor is added for safety reasons in the distribution phase, and its explosive where as co2 isn't. Do you not think odor could be added to co2 that could be stored in a similar fashion?
There are plenty of places we could store co2 in old production fields, many offshore where they would be safer to humans in the event of an accident.
Natural gas is stored in underground (A) salt formations, (C) aquifer reservoirs and (D) depleted reservoirs.[2]
If it can and is done safely be the natural gas industry then why do you think we couldn't use same technology for co2?
Wiki
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Malvern, posted 07-19-2011 11:14 AM Malvern has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Malvern, posted 07-19-2011 12:28 PM fearandloathing has not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 39 of 52 (625133)
07-21-2011 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Buzsaw
07-21-2011 1:33 PM


Re: Giving them a chance.
Hi Buzz, just a few fact about geothermal energy, it is a rather broad group of technologies.
source
quote:
Geothermal power is generated in over 20 countries around the world including Iceland, the United States, Italy, France, Lithuania, New Zealand, Mexico, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Russia, the Philippines, Indonesia, the People's Republic of China and Japan.
The entire world resource base of geothermal energy has been calculated in government surveys to be larger than the resource bases of coal, oil, gas and uranium combined.
New facilities can produce electricity from geothermal energy for between 4.5 and 7.3 cents per kilowatt-hour, making it competitive with new conventional fossil fuel-fired power plants.
Iceland is situated in an area with a high concentration of volcanoes, making it an ideal location for generating geothermal energy. Over 26% of Iceland's electrical energy is generated from geothermal sources. In addition, geothermal heating is used to heat 87% of homes in Iceland.Icelanders plan to be 100% non-fossil fuel in the near future.
Even though geothermal energy is technically a finite resource, the typical lifetime for geothermal activity around magmatic centers - from 5,000 years to 1,000,000 years - is so long that it is considered a renewable resource.
Geothermal heating is a method of heating and cooling a building. It takes advantage of the natural stable warmth stored in the earth. Geothermal heating is flame-less, therefore producing no health and safety concerns as associated with fossil fuels.
Today, geothermal energy is utilized in three technology categories:
Heating and cooling buildings via geothermal heat pumps that utilize shallow sources
Heating structures with direct-use applications
Generating electricity through indirect use.
About 2850 megawatts of geothermal generation capacity is available from power plants in the western United States. Geothermal energy generates about 2% of the electricity in Utah, 6% of the electricity in California and almost 10% of the electricity in northern Nevada.
It is by no means a fix for our environment, but don't you think it should be utilized anywhere it can? The oil and gas companies probably wouldn't like it, but hey if Hawaii could produce clean cheap energy for itself then why not? Every green plant that could replace a fossil fuel plant is a step in the right direction.
AbE .. As a state, all islands. Hawaii is a great candidate to produce a sizable amount of power using geothermal I would think.
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Buzsaw, posted 07-21-2011 1:33 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Malvern, posted 07-21-2011 3:14 PM fearandloathing has replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 41 of 52 (625138)
07-21-2011 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Malvern
07-21-2011 2:46 PM


Re: Giving them a chance.
The whole point is to get something started. Show the rest of the nation and the world that we can tap into the natural resources right under our feet and not rely on oil tankers to bring fuel for the power plants.
Hi Malvern,
I thought you might find this interesting, this looks a lot like what you have in mind.
quote:
Geothermal is one of Hawaii’s strongest energy building blocks. Unlike solar and wind power, it is what’s called a firm resourcealways there.
The Puna Geothermal Venture facility is the first and only commercial scale geothermal plant in Hawaii. It produces about 30 MW of power, or 20 percent of the island’s needs. That’s enough electricity for 30,000 residents and visitors. Today PGV saves Hawaii Electric Light Co. (HELCO) more than 144,000 barrels of oil a year.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Malvern, posted 07-21-2011 2:46 PM Malvern has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Malvern, posted 07-21-2011 3:53 PM fearandloathing has not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 43 of 52 (625149)
07-21-2011 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Malvern
07-21-2011 3:14 PM


Re: Giving them a chance.
Few facts about world production of geothermal power from a great source on all types of energy.
quote:
1. United States 3,086
2. Philippines 1,904
3. Indonesia 1,197
4. Mexico 958
5. Italy 843
6. New Zealand 628
7. Iceland 575
8. Japan 536
9. El Salvador 204
10. Kenya 167
11. Costa Rica 166
12. Nicaragua 88
13. Russia 82
14. Turkey 82
15. Papua New Guinea 56
16. Guatemala 52
17. Portugal 29
18. China 24
19. France 16
20. Ethiopia 7.3
21. Germany 6.6
22. Austria 1.4
23. Australia 1.1
24. Thailand 0.3
Power produced in MW in 2010
I'd take it one step further, and there is increasing support for this. Why do you need gasoline powered cars in Hawaii? It is a perfect test bed for electric propulsion. Recharged by geothermal electric generation? Hells Bells. Why not?
Maybe , if the infrastructure was in place, rental car companies could recive some type of tax credit for switching there fleet over, got to be big business in Hawaii. No sales tax on electric cars bought in Hawaii maybe as an incentive to switch...
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Malvern, posted 07-21-2011 3:14 PM Malvern has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by frako, posted 07-21-2011 5:30 PM fearandloathing has replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 47 of 52 (625187)
07-21-2011 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by frako
07-21-2011 5:30 PM


Re: Giving them a chance.
I wasnt trying to do anything but put forth figures for geothermal, no comparison was ever intended,.... Your point was???

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by frako, posted 07-21-2011 5:30 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by frako, posted 07-21-2011 6:01 PM fearandloathing has not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 49 of 52 (625724)
07-25-2011 10:07 AM


Bump for lamjoseph
lamjoseph writes:
The future is also catered to with workable laws for humanity and how we can survive over population and diminished climactic conditions in the future.
Please explain?

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 52 of 52 (625768)
07-25-2011 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Taz
07-25-2011 3:38 PM


Re: Giving them a chance.
Hi taz,
I just thought I would provide a little info on how much methane might be stored in the arctic and oceans.
quote:
WHAT do you get when you combine water and swamp gas under low temperatures and high pressures? You get a frozen latticelike substance called methane hydrate, huge amounts of which underlie our oceans and polar permafrost. This crystalline combination of a natural gas and water (known technically as a clathrate) looks remarkably like ice but burns if it meets a lit match.
Methane hydrate was discovered only a few decades ago, and little research has been done on it until recently. By some estimates, the energy locked up in methane hydrate deposits is more than twice the global reserves of all conventional gas, oil, and coal deposits combined. But no one has yet figured out how to pull out the gas inexpensively, and no one knows how much is actually recoverable. Because methane is also a greenhouse gas, release of even a small percentage of total deposits could have a serious effect on Earth's atmosphere.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Taz, posted 07-25-2011 3:38 PM Taz has not replied

  
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