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Author Topic:   United States Debt Default
Straggler
Member (Idle past 287 days)
Posts: 10332
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 31 of 211 (624220)
07-16-2011 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by jar
07-16-2011 2:56 PM


Re: Credit Ratings Agencies
But are we not now reaching the point where these credit downgrade threats are real?

For the UK, US and other AAA rated nations as well as the likes of Greece and Portugla etc.

I honestly don't know and am not making points here. I want to know what the situation really is.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by jar, posted 07-16-2011 2:56 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 07-16-2011 4:33 PM Straggler has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 32 of 211 (624234)
07-16-2011 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Straggler
07-16-2011 3:33 PM


Re: Credit Ratings Agencies
I think they have always been real.

I think in the end the credit rating companies like S&P and Moody's and Fitch are as afraid to drop the rating as well, and that is too bad.

It may well take dropping the credit rating to actually get anyone to present a long term plan.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Straggler, posted 07-16-2011 3:33 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member (Idle past 1190 days)
Posts: 6349
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


(1)
Message 33 of 211 (624237)
07-16-2011 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Jon
07-16-2011 1:27 PM


Jon responds to me:

quote:
quote:

Personally? I say go back even further...repeal the Reagan tax cuts.

The graph from Message 15 would certainly seem to support that sentiment.


Here's a better view:

The economic downturn has been a problem, yes. We'd still have a problem with unemployment, but we'd have much more money to help such as government investment in infrastructure, development of new technologies, extending the social safety net so that the long-term unemployed don't become completely unemployable (if you've been out of work for a year, employers no longer want to hire you.)

Cutting taxes does not create jobs. It never has:

In previous times when taxes were higher on the upper classes and businesses, employment was more fluid: Businesses took profits and put them back into the company in order to avoid having to pay those taxes. But as the tax rates on companies became lower and lower, as paying out dividends became less and less of a tax burden, those profits left the company and went into the pockets of the rich.

Companies aren't hiring because there isn't any demand. There isn't any demand because there aren't any jobs. There aren't any jobs because there's no reason for the companies to provide them. This is unsustainable.


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

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 Message 23 by Jon, posted 07-16-2011 1:27 PM Jon has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1811 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


(1)
Message 34 of 211 (624281)
07-17-2011 2:17 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by jar
07-16-2011 2:56 PM


Re: Credit Ratings Agencies
The problem is that no politicians want to address the issue.

Politicians aren't in the business of addressing issues or fixing problems. They are in the business of getting re-elected.

Because the conservative based has embarked on a multi-decade drive to reduce, if not eliminate, education among their core, they now find themselves in a position where the people who voted them in are mad, opinionated, and have LITERALLY NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT!

25% of Conservatives believe that they are in the top 5% of earners.

That's despite the ability to LOOK UP the numbers.

These are people who literally can't tell if their income ($50,000 a year) is MORE or LESS than someone making $25 million a year.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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frako
Member
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 35 of 211 (624319)
07-17-2011 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Nuggin
07-17-2011 2:17 AM


Re: Credit Ratings Agencies
These are people who literally can't tell if their income ($50,000 a year) is MORE or LESS than someone making $25 million a year.

I know American education is bad but is it really that bad A first grade student a child of 6-7 could anwser that correctly.


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Replies to this message:
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Malvern
Junior Member (Idle past 3639 days)
Posts: 20
From: Mesopotamia, Ohio USA
Joined: 04-22-2011


Message 36 of 211 (624523)
07-18-2011 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by jar
07-16-2011 2:00 PM


Re: Possible
The issue is the monies needed for government to actually do anything. If the debt ceiling does not get raised then a lot of the current non debt related commitments, Social Security retirement benefits, military salaries, government workers salaries, the Federal parts of unemployment insurance, the US postal service might not go out after August 3rd.

Pay the military! Pay the military! Pay the military!

If Congress is stupid enough to go into default, then there's someone in the military stupid enough to park his tank on the Capitol steps and demand his paycheck.

(:raig


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by jar, posted 07-16-2011 2:00 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 37 of 211 (624524)
07-18-2011 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Malvern
07-18-2011 2:06 PM


Re: Possible
I see no reason to pay the military. In fact, that should certainly be a great place to stop payments.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by hooah212002, posted 07-18-2011 2:18 PM jar has replied
 Message 109 by Phat, posted 07-25-2011 4:40 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 119 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 38 of 211 (624526)
07-18-2011 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by jar
07-18-2011 2:09 PM


Re: Possible
So, you think a deployed soldiers wife and children should not receive a paycheck? I guess most people don't realize that for some (most, maybe) being a soldier is a job, with the expectation of being paid to do it. These people risk their lives and put their lives on hold and have ZERO to do with the situation you clamor about or against. I am a veteran so I speak first hand about it being a job.


"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by jar, posted 07-18-2011 2:09 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by jar, posted 07-18-2011 2:21 PM hooah212002 has replied
 Message 42 by Taq, posted 07-18-2011 3:28 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 39 of 211 (624528)
07-18-2011 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by hooah212002
07-18-2011 2:18 PM


Re: Possible
No, I did not say that I "think a deployed soldiers wife and children should not receive a paycheck", I said that not paying the Military is likely a good idea.

It certainly is one possible way though to actually bring the issue to a head and for the first time maybe get anyone to address the issue.

Right now all the discussion seems to be nothing more than political masturbation.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by hooah212002, posted 07-18-2011 2:18 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by hooah212002, posted 07-18-2011 2:26 PM jar has replied
 Message 41 by Malvern, posted 07-18-2011 3:16 PM jar has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 119 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 40 of 211 (624529)
07-18-2011 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by jar
07-18-2011 2:21 PM


Re: Possible
Well, it seems we aren't talking about the same thing then, eh? malvern made a comment that insinuated (and this has been tossed about) that military personnel would not receive paychecks. You then responded, in kind, saying to stop payments to the military. This response, being in response his comment, made it obvious that you agreed to stop paying members of the military. Perhaps you care to clarify?

No, I did not say that I "think a deployed soldiers wife and children should not receive a paycheck",

But that is EXACTLY what would happen if members of the military stopped receiving paychecks.

I said that not paying the Military is likely a good idea.

True. But cutting the pay of a lowly, newly enlisted, father of 3 and newly married E2 is NOT the way to go about it. But if you think the pay cuts will come from the top down, you are sadly mistaken.... There IS, however, a LOT of wasteful spending.


"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by jar, posted 07-18-2011 2:21 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by jar, posted 07-18-2011 4:42 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
Malvern
Junior Member (Idle past 3639 days)
Posts: 20
From: Mesopotamia, Ohio USA
Joined: 04-22-2011


Message 41 of 211 (624542)
07-18-2011 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by jar
07-18-2011 2:21 PM


Re: Possible
There is a historical precedent for my remarks, Jar. It was called the "Bonus Army" of World War I vets who descended on Washington as the Great Depression was in full swing, demanding jobs and other government aid and benefits. What they got were clubs, rifle butts and tear gas, with none other then Douglas MacArthur, the Army Chief of Staff, expelling them from town.

(:raig


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by jar, posted 07-18-2011 2:21 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 8525
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 42 of 211 (624544)
07-18-2011 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by hooah212002
07-18-2011 2:18 PM


Re: Possible
So, you think a deployed soldiers wife and children should not receive a paycheck?

Should federal employees lose their job and/or paycheck? Should my grandfather, who worked hard every day of his life, not get his social security check? Should my grandma not get a life saving surgery because Medicare refuses to pay? Should Joe Blow, a father of 3, not get his unemployment check after being laid off from the factory?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by hooah212002, posted 07-18-2011 2:18 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Malvern, posted 07-18-2011 3:36 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 44 by hooah212002, posted 07-18-2011 3:43 PM Taq has replied

  
Malvern
Junior Member (Idle past 3639 days)
Posts: 20
From: Mesopotamia, Ohio USA
Joined: 04-22-2011


Message 43 of 211 (624546)
07-18-2011 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Taq
07-18-2011 3:28 PM


Re: Possible
...and the ripple effects would be immediate. What percentage of a hospital's income, ANY hospital, comes from Medicare and Medicaid payments. And there are how many EMPLOYED people in the health care industry?

(:raig


This message is a reply to:
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 119 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 44 of 211 (624547)
07-18-2011 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Taq
07-18-2011 3:28 PM


Re: Possible
The answer to all of those is no, in my opinion. We all know that none of those programs are where the problem lies, though. None of those programs are where there is the most waste. Those programs help people, not pad pockets.


"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Taq, posted 07-18-2011 3:28 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 45 of 211 (624555)
07-18-2011 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by hooah212002
07-18-2011 2:26 PM


Re: Possible
Of course the women and children will suffer, and there will be NO support left for them.

And all the people on Social Security Retirement will suffer and all those on Medicare and in Vet Hospitals and all the unemployed.

Literally Millions will suffer and many likely die.

But the rich should do jess fine.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by hooah212002, posted 07-18-2011 2:26 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
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