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Author Topic:   The first life
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 2 of 30 (62448)
10-23-2003 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Thanos6
10-23-2003 9:47 PM


The bio textbooks all deny, and quite rightly, the existence of spontaneous generation.
Not really. All that Pasteur proved was that it doesn't happen with nearly the frequency that was assumed under the current thought; i.e. that rotting meat was all you needed to give rise to maggots, etc. He never proved that it can't happen.
It just seems to me that for abiogenesis (if that's the right term) to have happened exactly ONCE in the history of the world (as the theory of common descent requires) and never again, without the hand of God intervening, is a bit farfetched.
It's not that it happens once, and never again. It's that once it happens - once life really takes off - it can never happen again. Proto-life can't compete with real-life, and so it never gets a chance.
I would have thought this was obvious.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Chiroptera, posted 10-24-2003 9:39 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 20 by Minnemooseus, posted 10-25-2003 3:51 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 27 by tsjok45, posted 10-30-2003 11:15 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 21 of 30 (62816)
10-25-2003 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Joralex
10-25-2003 9:52 AM


Good start, Rei... most fairy tales do begin with "once upon a time".
Except, of course, for the one that begins "In the beginning".
We "understand" NOTHING. We have merely accumulated enough observations/experience to become adequate technicians (but not always and sometimes not so adequate). In time we will become better technicians but this is an infinite cry from true understanding.
That's as it may be, but luckily for knowledge you don't have to Understand anything to do science. That's the beauty of empiricism. Not since Aristotle have we labored under the misapprehension that we have to big-U Understand (or, if you prefer, "grok") something to know what it does, or how it affects other things.
So really your objection is rather pointless. Nobody is pretending to grok the nature of life, or even it's origin. We're simply looking for an explanitory model that doesn't conflict with the data. Unfortunately your Christian God hypothesis doesn't fit that bill; there's too much contradictory information, not least of which is the non-existence of God.

This message is a reply to:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 22 of 30 (62819)
10-25-2003 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Minnemooseus
10-25-2003 3:51 PM


I see no reason why abiogenesis could not be happening even in the present.
I assume it is, or starts, anyway. Then I assume that it gets its butt totally kicked by already-existing life, which has spread out to every possible niche and is strengthened by a billion years of competition. There's just no way that a proto-life replicating molecule could gain a foothold in a world that already has life.
Then again such a molecule could survive by replicating in cells. Perhaps prions and viruses are the result of separate abiogenesis events after the formation of life.

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Replies to this message:
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