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Author Topic:   Climate Change Delusion
frako
Member (Idle past 327 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 31 of 52 (624860)
07-20-2011 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Malvern
07-20-2011 11:53 AM


Re: Giving them a chance.
What does Iceland have that Hawaii doesn't? Backbone? Vision? Commitment?
The better question would be what they dont have, American policies on energy , and crackpots like this
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Malvern, posted 07-20-2011 11:53 AM Malvern has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Malvern, posted 07-20-2011 1:08 PM frako has replied

  
Malvern
Junior Member (Idle past 4342 days)
Posts: 20
From: Mesopotamia, Ohio USA
Joined: 04-22-2011


Message 32 of 52 (624868)
07-20-2011 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by frako
07-20-2011 12:12 PM


Re: Giving them a chance.
I've always been puzzled by the Religious Right's resistance to the "Green Dragon"
What part of GEN 2:15 do they not understand.
"And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it."
Does that mean that since Adam and Eve got expelled from the garden that it's okay to let the whole thing go to Hell?
(:raig

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by frako, posted 07-20-2011 12:12 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by frako, posted 07-21-2011 7:21 AM Malvern has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3313 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 33 of 52 (624875)
07-20-2011 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by frako
07-16-2011 7:00 AM


Re: Giving them a chance.
CO2 is just a part of it. The bad boy is methane. I believe we've already passed the point of no return.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by frako, posted 07-16-2011 7:00 AM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by frako, posted 07-21-2011 7:22 AM Taz has replied
 Message 45 by Malvern, posted 07-21-2011 4:00 PM Taz has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 327 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 34 of 52 (625017)
07-21-2011 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Malvern
07-20-2011 1:08 PM


Re: Giving them a chance.
Dunno to me it sounds its ok to take a shit in your bed somebody will clean it up eventually.
Now if it where only their bead they where shitting on i would have no problems with that but its also my bed and i want it clean.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Malvern, posted 07-20-2011 1:08 PM Malvern has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 327 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 35 of 52 (625018)
07-21-2011 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Taz
07-20-2011 1:46 PM


Re: Giving them a chance.
I doubt that we are passed it i do think we are are very close to it though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Taz, posted 07-20-2011 1:46 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Taz, posted 07-25-2011 3:29 PM frako has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 52 (625034)
07-21-2011 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Malvern
07-20-2011 11:53 AM


Re: Giving them a chance.
Malvern writes:
What does Iceland have that Hawaii doesn't? Backbone? Vision? Commitment?
The whole nation of Iceland sits on a geothermal power plant.
quote:
Geothermal heating of houses began around 1930, and today all of Reykjavik is heated by the Reykjavk Energy district heating system. Throughout Iceland, about 90% of the population now enjoy geothermal heating (not all parts of the country have utilisable hot water resources). Iceland has several major geothermal power plants which produce the majority of the country's electricity.
Edited by Buzsaw, : prematuely posted.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Malvern, posted 07-20-2011 11:53 AM Malvern has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Malvern, posted 07-21-2011 9:50 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Malvern
Junior Member (Idle past 4342 days)
Posts: 20
From: Mesopotamia, Ohio USA
Joined: 04-22-2011


Message 37 of 52 (625064)
07-21-2011 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Buzsaw
07-21-2011 8:14 AM


Re: Giving them a chance.
The whole nation of Iceland sits on a geothermal power plant.
...and the big island of Hawaii sits on what, a glacier?
Here is a perfect example of a great natural resource sitting untouchable in a national park. I can't believe that on the entire island of Hawaii (not the island chain), they can't find a spot for even a demonstration power plant? To me, that would be a heck of a tourist draw.
Error retrieving uploaded document
...and meanwhile, here in the Great State of Ohio, our illustrious governor is going to "drill, baby, drill". Damn the tourists! Full drill ahead!"
Wooster Daily Record
Don't 'cha just love the consistency in the energy policies of this country? Oh, that's right. We don't have any.
(:raig
Edited by Malvern, : punctuation

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Buzsaw, posted 07-21-2011 8:14 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Buzsaw, posted 07-21-2011 1:33 PM Malvern has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 52 (625119)
07-21-2011 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Malvern
07-21-2011 9:50 AM


Re: Giving them a chance.
.
Malvern writes:
..and the big island of Hawaii sits on what, a glacier?
On the earth's crust in the ocean, having a volatile volcano sitting in a relatively small area of the nation.
How many power plants do you think could feasibly and safely installed to be fueled by the volcano?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Malvern, posted 07-21-2011 9:50 AM Malvern has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by fearandloathing, posted 07-21-2011 2:46 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 40 by Malvern, posted 07-21-2011 2:46 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4166 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 39 of 52 (625133)
07-21-2011 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Buzsaw
07-21-2011 1:33 PM


Re: Giving them a chance.
Hi Buzz, just a few fact about geothermal energy, it is a rather broad group of technologies.
source
quote:
Geothermal power is generated in over 20 countries around the world including Iceland, the United States, Italy, France, Lithuania, New Zealand, Mexico, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Russia, the Philippines, Indonesia, the People's Republic of China and Japan.
The entire world resource base of geothermal energy has been calculated in government surveys to be larger than the resource bases of coal, oil, gas and uranium combined.
New facilities can produce electricity from geothermal energy for between 4.5 and 7.3 cents per kilowatt-hour, making it competitive with new conventional fossil fuel-fired power plants.
Iceland is situated in an area with a high concentration of volcanoes, making it an ideal location for generating geothermal energy. Over 26% of Iceland's electrical energy is generated from geothermal sources. In addition, geothermal heating is used to heat 87% of homes in Iceland.Icelanders plan to be 100% non-fossil fuel in the near future.
Even though geothermal energy is technically a finite resource, the typical lifetime for geothermal activity around magmatic centers - from 5,000 years to 1,000,000 years - is so long that it is considered a renewable resource.
Geothermal heating is a method of heating and cooling a building. It takes advantage of the natural stable warmth stored in the earth. Geothermal heating is flame-less, therefore producing no health and safety concerns as associated with fossil fuels.
Today, geothermal energy is utilized in three technology categories:
Heating and cooling buildings via geothermal heat pumps that utilize shallow sources
Heating structures with direct-use applications
Generating electricity through indirect use.
About 2850 megawatts of geothermal generation capacity is available from power plants in the western United States. Geothermal energy generates about 2% of the electricity in Utah, 6% of the electricity in California and almost 10% of the electricity in northern Nevada.
It is by no means a fix for our environment, but don't you think it should be utilized anywhere it can? The oil and gas companies probably wouldn't like it, but hey if Hawaii could produce clean cheap energy for itself then why not? Every green plant that could replace a fossil fuel plant is a step in the right direction.
AbE .. As a state, all islands. Hawaii is a great candidate to produce a sizable amount of power using geothermal I would think.
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Buzsaw, posted 07-21-2011 1:33 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Malvern, posted 07-21-2011 3:14 PM fearandloathing has replied

  
Malvern
Junior Member (Idle past 4342 days)
Posts: 20
From: Mesopotamia, Ohio USA
Joined: 04-22-2011


Message 40 of 52 (625134)
07-21-2011 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Buzsaw
07-21-2011 1:33 PM


Re: Giving them a chance.
Buzsaw writes:
How many power plants do you think could feasibly and safely installed to be fueled by the volcano?
I don't know how many Buz. So, I'd start with a pilot facility somewhere along Route 11 on the Big Island. Probably to the South or Southeast. Surface lava flows are too unpredictable, so I would think a slant drill toward the laval plume would be the way to go. The further Northwest you go, the (relatively) safer it is since the entire movment of the island chain is to the Northwest away from the laval plume.
The facility can be served by Hilo to the Northeast. Hilo, with 40K population, has an international airport, residential and commercial facilities and an extention of the University of Hawaii.
The whole point is to get something started. Show the rest of the nation and the world that we can tap into the natural resources right under our feet and not rely on oil tankers to bring fuel for the power plants.
(:raig
Edited by Malvern, : text edits

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Buzsaw, posted 07-21-2011 1:33 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by fearandloathing, posted 07-21-2011 3:08 PM Malvern has replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4166 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 41 of 52 (625138)
07-21-2011 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Malvern
07-21-2011 2:46 PM


Re: Giving them a chance.
The whole point is to get something started. Show the rest of the nation and the world that we can tap into the natural resources right under our feet and not rely on oil tankers to bring fuel for the power plants.
Hi Malvern,
I thought you might find this interesting, this looks a lot like what you have in mind.
quote:
Geothermal is one of Hawaii’s strongest energy building blocks. Unlike solar and wind power, it is what’s called a firm resourcealways there.
The Puna Geothermal Venture facility is the first and only commercial scale geothermal plant in Hawaii. It produces about 30 MW of power, or 20 percent of the island’s needs. That’s enough electricity for 30,000 residents and visitors. Today PGV saves Hawaii Electric Light Co. (HELCO) more than 144,000 barrels of oil a year.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Malvern, posted 07-21-2011 2:46 PM Malvern has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Malvern, posted 07-21-2011 3:53 PM fearandloathing has not replied

  
Malvern
Junior Member (Idle past 4342 days)
Posts: 20
From: Mesopotamia, Ohio USA
Joined: 04-22-2011


Message 42 of 52 (625141)
07-21-2011 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by fearandloathing
07-21-2011 2:46 PM


Re: Giving them a chance.
Hawaii is a great candidate to produce a sizable amount of power using geothermal I would think.
I'd take it one step further, and there is increasing support for this. Why do you need gasoline powered cars in Hawaii? It is a perfect test bed for electric propulsion. Recharged by geothermal electric generation? Hells Bells. Why not?
(:raig

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by fearandloathing, posted 07-21-2011 2:46 PM fearandloathing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by fearandloathing, posted 07-21-2011 3:36 PM Malvern has not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4166 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 43 of 52 (625149)
07-21-2011 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Malvern
07-21-2011 3:14 PM


Re: Giving them a chance.
Few facts about world production of geothermal power from a great source on all types of energy.
quote:
1. United States 3,086
2. Philippines 1,904
3. Indonesia 1,197
4. Mexico 958
5. Italy 843
6. New Zealand 628
7. Iceland 575
8. Japan 536
9. El Salvador 204
10. Kenya 167
11. Costa Rica 166
12. Nicaragua 88
13. Russia 82
14. Turkey 82
15. Papua New Guinea 56
16. Guatemala 52
17. Portugal 29
18. China 24
19. France 16
20. Ethiopia 7.3
21. Germany 6.6
22. Austria 1.4
23. Australia 1.1
24. Thailand 0.3
Power produced in MW in 2010
I'd take it one step further, and there is increasing support for this. Why do you need gasoline powered cars in Hawaii? It is a perfect test bed for electric propulsion. Recharged by geothermal electric generation? Hells Bells. Why not?
Maybe , if the infrastructure was in place, rental car companies could recive some type of tax credit for switching there fleet over, got to be big business in Hawaii. No sales tax on electric cars bought in Hawaii maybe as an incentive to switch...
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Malvern, posted 07-21-2011 3:14 PM Malvern has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by frako, posted 07-21-2011 5:30 PM fearandloathing has replied

  
Malvern
Junior Member (Idle past 4342 days)
Posts: 20
From: Mesopotamia, Ohio USA
Joined: 04-22-2011


Message 44 of 52 (625151)
07-21-2011 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by fearandloathing
07-21-2011 3:08 PM


Re: Giving them a chance.
The Puna Geothermal Venture facility is the first and only commercial scale geothermal plant in Hawaii. It produces about 30 MW of power, or 20 percent of the island’s needs. That’s enough electricity for 30,000 residents and visitors. Today PGV saves Hawaii Electric Light Co. (HELCO) more than 144,000 barrels of oil a year.
Just what I thought. All the power resources you could imagine, but you have to run a l-o-o-o-o-n-g (and expensive) extension cord over to Oahu. That's where political backbone comes in.
It still may come to pass. At least they're going in the right direction.
(:raig

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by fearandloathing, posted 07-21-2011 3:08 PM fearandloathing has not replied

  
Malvern
Junior Member (Idle past 4342 days)
Posts: 20
From: Mesopotamia, Ohio USA
Joined: 04-22-2011


Message 45 of 52 (625154)
07-21-2011 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Taz
07-20-2011 1:46 PM


Re: Giving them a chance.
Taz writes:
CO2 is just a part of it. The bad boy is methane. I believe we've already passed the point of no return.
So, in your opinion Taz, are we just pissing on a forest fire with all this talk of CO2 capture and "reduced carbon footprint"?
(:raig

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Taz, posted 07-20-2011 1:46 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Taz, posted 07-25-2011 3:38 PM Malvern has not replied

  
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