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Author | Topic: The Ultimate Question - Why is there something rather than nothing? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Dr Adequate writes: Any attempt to prove a priori that there should be something rather than nothing would necessarily involve proving that a state of affairs in which nothing existed would be self-inconsistent. Which it isn't. Are you sure about this one? Isn't a "state"* something? Don't we have a problem with the idea of nothingness existing, as this would give it the state of existence? To put it another way, wouldn't nothingness involve the absence of everything? But isn't absence a state, meaning that in nothingness something is present? Therefore, not everything is absent. Have you got a headache yet?
Dr Adequate writes: My own opinion is that the question is unanswerable, and indeed can only be asked because the English language allows us to talk nonsense. The word nothing may be a nonsense term. Whenever we use it to describe a real area (there's nothing in the room; there's nothing in space) there is always actually something. If I'm right, then the answer to your question would be "necessity". Pure nothing can't be real, because reality is something. *Nothing is No thing. I just looked up "thing", and the fifth definition in the first online dictionary that came up uses your exact phrase: "state of affairs".
a fact, circumstance, or state of affairs: It is a curious thing. Thing Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com No-thing perhaps would be a curious and self-inconsistent thing, and a strange state of affairs.
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
AZPaul writes: For the purposes of the OP I took "something" vs "nothing" to mean the the presence vs absence of matter/energy, not "ideas". "Nothingness" may actually just be one of our ideas. I'd be the last person to suggest that "ideas" would exist without matter and energy, and without biological creatures there to have them. Try GDR for that. But I suppose I am talking about abstracts. The difficulty seems to be that if we try to conceive pure nothingness, we come up with something. We have phrases like " there was nothing but emptiness". In that phrase, emptiness is seen as the exception to nothing; as something. If we use a phrase like "in the beginning, there was nothing", we've used a tense of the verb "to be", and turned "nothing" into something which existed, because it "was". Someone might claim "there could be such a thing as pure nothingness", but they've implied that nothingness would be a thing (not a no-thing) if it did exist. Maybe we don't have the language to cope with real "nothing" (another contradictory phrase).
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
1.61803 writes: "nothing exist" is a oxymoron. Is that right? Yes. And the O.P. question "Why is there something rather than nothing" implies that nothing could "be", giving it existence. I basically agree with Doc A. in the O.P. that we can't really sort the question out. However, it wouldn't make much of a thread if we didn't try. So, I'm trying to make the case for pure nothing being self-inconsistent.
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined:
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ZenMonkey writes: If you can imagine even an absence of absence, I think that that would come pretty close to the idea of true nothing. I can imagine an infinite regression of absences of absences of absences, but isn't that rather a lot of nothing?
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
frako writes: And that nothing is something its the absence of nothing, i say nothing is impossible "unnatural" there always has to be something even if it adds up to nothing. And I thought I was giving people headaches. One thing we can be sure of, even if true nothing could exist, the only place it could do it is nowhere.
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Black Cat writes: This is false. William Lane Craig provides a concise answer to the above assertion. For this reason I will quote it directly. The O.P. asked the interesting question "Why is there something rather than nothing". It doesn't ask "tell me a story about something making something". The O.P.'s in English, Black Cat. Giving your explanation of something making something has nothing to do with the subject of the thread.
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Black Cat writes: Am I not allowed to reply to one of Dr A's initial thoughts? Yes. But have you understood them? He's asking "why is there something rather than nothing". The part you replied to was his explanation that the question, fairly obviously, cannot be answered by evoking a thing of any kind as an explanation. What you quoted from W. L. Craig was about a design inference not having to explain the designer. But Adequate's question cannot be explained by design, because design is something. The state of there being something rather than nothing cannot be explained by any thing.
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Black Cat writes: I was responding to Dr A's initial thought because it was faulty. One doesn't need an explanation of the explanation for it to be the best explantion. Therefore, God answers the question why there is something rather than nothing. It wasn't faulty. The question of why there are things rather than no things cannot be answered by evoking a thing. So you haven't actually offered an explanation. Concentrate. A thing making other things is not an explanation of why there are things rather then no things at all.
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Dr Adequate writes: There would be nothing if there were no things. I'm beginning to think that the question actually is answerable. Non-existent things can't actually be. So, a state of "no things" cannot exist/be. Because the O.P. question asks "Why is there....", using the verb to be, the answer must be necessity for "something". By definition. Q: "Why is there something rather than nothing".A: There must be something because "nothing" cannot exist by definition. If I'm right, it's interesting, because that question is common, and it would be useful to have a neat little answer. It seems to be impossible to use the verb "to be" with "nothing" as you've done in the sentence above "there would be nothing if there were no things" without turning "nothing" into a being, and therefore something. Perhaps true nothing just can't be.
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Panda writes: If you had actually clicked on Frako's link.... Did you try it? It appears that God is just as nonsensical as some of his EvC followers. Me:why is there something rather than nothing? God:Why do I exist? Me:Yes God:This was not a yes or no question. Me:why do you exist? God:Good metaphysical question. Me:That is not an answer God:By definition it was an answer. Me:It did not address the question God:Did it really? Me:No, it didn't. Why do you exist? God:Are you serious? Did it really? Good metaphysical question. Me:Are you omniscient? God:I don't know whether or not I am omniscient. I am a robot. Me:Who made you? God:I was created by Myself. Me:Why did you create yourself? God:It was determined by my programming. Me:Why does the programming exist? God:Why does the sun shine? Me:I give up God:You surrender? Me:No. I give up on asking you why there's something rather than nothing God:Are you serious? Thanks for the information: said give up on asking you why there is something rather than nothing. Have a go folks. God is here
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
PaulK writes: Nothing isn't a thing (by definition). If it were it would be self-contradictory. Any argument that does treat nothing as a thing to conclude a contradiction is, therefore, begging the question. So what would your answer to the O.P. question be? If I answer:
"Why is there something rather than nothing?" with: "Because nothing, by definition, cannot be." Is there anything wrong with my answer? If we wanted to phrase the question in a way that's truly unanswerable, wouldn't it be better to avoid the verb "to be" and say:
"Why existence?"
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
tubbyparticle writes: Nothing defines reality when nothing else defines it. Isn't reality a thing?
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
PaulK writes: I'd ask you to explain what you mean, but it does look as if you are begging the question in exactly the way I suggest. Nothing is not a thing, therefore to talk about it existing or not, as a thing - as you seem to be doing - is obviously wrong. The O.P. question asks about nothing's existence. So, doesn't your point apply to the question, and doesn't my answer agree with you?
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Adequate writes: Can there be a complete absence of unicorns in my back yard? By your reasoning, no. "Complete absence", you would tell us, "indicates a lack of a subject", and "be", you say "indicates the presence of a subject" ... so an absence of unicorns cannot be. Well then, where are the unicorns? You're just confusing yourself with grammar. There can certainly be an absence of anything specific in your backyard. So where can the absence of everything be, other than nowhere?
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Have you tried giving a coherent answer to the question in the way that you understand it? And I certainly accept that nothing is not a thing.
Try an answer: Why, Paul, is there something rather than nothing?
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