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Author Topic:   The Ultimate Question - Why is there something rather than nothing?
frako
Member (Idle past 328 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 3 of 366 (624828)
07-20-2011 7:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dr Adequate
07-20-2011 1:58 AM


Hmm i have my own crackpot theory on this
Given that we do not see nothing in nature a pure vacuum is theoretically impossible because virtual particles would still come in and out of exsistance inside that vacuum even if you get everything else out of it (radiation, gravity, matter ...). One can therefore conclude that nothing is an "unnatural" state there hasto be something even if that something is 1-1 that equals nothing but is in fact not nothing.

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 Message 1 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-20-2011 1:58 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

frako
Member (Idle past 328 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 29 of 366 (624947)
07-20-2011 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by bluegenes
07-20-2011 5:55 PM


Re: Self-inconsistent?
And that nothing is something its the absence of nothing, i say nothing is impossible "unnatural" there always has to be something even if it adds up to nothing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by bluegenes, posted 07-20-2011 5:55 PM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
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frako
Member (Idle past 328 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 42 of 366 (625027)
07-21-2011 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by IamJoseph
07-21-2011 7:36 AM


So wait your god can be eternal and needs no creation while every other thing needs creation.
Let me put a diferent crackpot theory up for grabs.
0 is an unnatural state and it cant be found anywhere eccept on paper.
We see nothing produce virtual particles particles that in one moment come into exsistance in pairs then colide and go out of exsistance in the next moment they last for such a short time that they are not considered part of reality.
Lets say space can do the same it pops into exsistance for a short while then collides with negative space and goes out of exsistance again.
so now lets propose that space comes into exsistance with negative space but a colission with anoter positive space deflects it away from the path it was on to collide with negative space. Now we have 2 permanent pozitive spaces and 2 negative that will not collide because their tregectaries have been altered.
Now lets propose that the same thing happenes inside the space so we get a box inside the box.
Now in space virtual particles form all the time but like if they forme on the edge of an event horizon of a black hole where one part gets sucked into a black hole and the other wanders freely the same thing happens in the outside box a virual particle gets trapped inside the smaller inside box and one floats around freely
The smaller box slowly but surely gets filled up by these virtual particles they can enter but cannot escape. And at one point the "walls" of the small box cannot hold they brake and we get the big bang you know the rest form there.
So in fact we got something from nothing but if you add that something up you end up with nothing again, it is only something as long it is sepperated.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by IamJoseph, posted 07-21-2011 7:36 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by IamJoseph, posted 07-21-2011 8:23 AM frako has replied

frako
Member (Idle past 328 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 50 of 366 (625060)
07-21-2011 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by IamJoseph
07-21-2011 8:23 AM


I found some glitches here.
quote:
Let me put a diferent crackpot theory up for grabs.
0 is an unnatural state and it cant be found anywhere eccept on paper.
We see nothing produce virtual particles particles that in one moment come into exsistance in pairs then colide and go out of exsistance in the next moment they last for such a short time that they are not considered part of reality.
Yes, these are called omega or ghost particles, which appear to come from nowhere and become discernable upon impact with electrons. BUT! You are posing a post- or in-universe scenario, when empirical laws exist. These laws and their resultant products never existed pre-finite-uni. Glitch!
quote:Lets say space can do the same it pops into exsistance for a short while then collides with negative space and goes out of exsistance again.
None of these existed at the point of the universe. Even the BBT speculates a singular entity initiated the universe. Glitch!
quote:so now lets propose that space comes into exsistance with negative space
Space, posotive and negative yet never existed pre-finite uni. Glitch!
You get the idea why I said there is no alternative to ex nehilo?
No glitch nothing is an unnatural unstable state that has a tendency to divide itself in to equal positive end negative parts, the nothing itself created everything that is in fact nothing. Space metter .... no pre universe matter laws or anything required
Laws are created as soon as stuff like space is created from nothing laws are just properties of "stuff".
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by IamJoseph, posted 07-21-2011 8:23 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by IamJoseph, posted 07-21-2011 11:15 AM frako has replied

frako
Member (Idle past 328 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 75 of 366 (625173)
07-21-2011 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by IamJoseph
07-21-2011 11:15 AM


TENDENCY [relative to what experience?]
Relative to staying nothing
DIVIDE [how many initial items were there - 2 or billions?]
Zero after that it dosent matter
EQUAL [to what?]
NOTHING !!!!! as in 2+(-2) = 0
PARTS [of what?]
Parts as in space, matter energy .... .
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by IamJoseph, posted 07-21-2011 11:15 AM IamJoseph has replied

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frako
Member (Idle past 328 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 114 of 366 (625641)
07-24-2011 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Straggler
07-24-2011 5:20 PM


Re: Purpose
Titane – Advertising Agency
Lets just ask god he seems a bit dodgy but has better anwsers then IamJoshep

This message is a reply to:
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frako
Member (Idle past 328 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 130 of 366 (625882)
07-26-2011 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by IamJoseph
07-25-2011 9:19 AM


You realy dont know what evolution is right?
For evolution to kick off, first there has to be something to evolutionize;
Hows about a RNA molecule that copies itself with flaws can that be "evolutionised"?
this says the raw products of earth [matter]
Yes
and fully completed life forms, had to be first existant before evolution can claim any impacts.
NO
If the earth is 5 B years old, and life 5M years old, we see that evolution and life are recent factors, to the extent if we say the impacts were very slow it becomes farsical and understandably escapist.
Life is way older then 5 million years more like 3 billion, and what realy kicked off evolution was multicellular organisms it took some time forthem to evolve, then the other kick was land based organisms.
If matter emerged without evolution, then matter has no reliance on it;
Yes
he same applies with life forms.
NO (at least for life on earth witch "copies" itself with flaws)
Evolution is just a word which observed some changes
Well yes
and made into the neo science deity.
NO
For sure it is not based on any scientific criteria,
Like observation, hypothesis, experimentation, prediction, peer rewive, more testing more predictions theory ... fact.
(well techincaly the theory of evolution is a theory the method of how things evolved)
(and the fact of evolution is a fact things have evolved)
for sure it is agenda based to counter Creationism.
Well no the agenda of creationism is to counter evolution and bring bibles back into school and it has no grounds in science and scientific criteria.
One does not have to be religious to recognise what is a manipulation;
Quite right when you are religius it is hard to spot manipulation of facts, and evidence because it makes you feel all warm inside when your fary tale has some "evidence" to back itself up.
atheists have become more paranoid than the religionists today.
Really how so? Are we bombing people to fight of other view's like the muslims or the christians (if you happened to miss the latest christian bombing a guy in oslo placed a bomb there then went to an island and shot 80 or so kids)
Evolution is nothing other than the wiring in a directive program.
Well no evolution is fact and the theory of evolution is a theory, creationism is a farry tale.
Nature is nothing other than a metaphor of what is inexplicable.
Well no we are doing quite fine in explaining nature way better then the religious before us. You know lightnig is caused by thors hammer, the rainbow is a sighn from god .. all that silly stuff has been replaced with real explenations.
Acknowledging a universe maker is not an unscientific premise; its rejection is.
So accepting an untestable, invisible, unevidenced being is more scientific then rejecting it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by IamJoseph, posted 07-25-2011 9:19 AM IamJoseph has not replied

frako
Member (Idle past 328 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 157 of 366 (627385)
08-02-2011 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Black Cat
08-02-2011 10:10 AM


Again, there's no clear evidence that he intended to quote Dawkins directly. Second, his summation of Dawkins' main points is accurate, that can easily be seen from the quotes you provided. Craig is not obligated to quote whole paragraphs based on what you feel he should inlude and not include.
Ok let me try his method
let me quote you again
Again, there's clear evidence that he intended to quote Dawkins directly. Second, his summation of Dawkins' main points is not accurate, that can easily be seen from the quotes you provided. Craig is obligated to quote whole paragraphs based on what you feel he should include and not include.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Black Cat, posted 08-02-2011 10:10 AM Black Cat has replied

Replies to this message:
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frako
Member (Idle past 328 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 183 of 366 (627694)
08-03-2011 1:17 PM


Stephen Hawking writes:
Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.
Stephen Hawking: God did not create the Universe | Daily Mail Online
So there the anwser hy there is something rather then nothing.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by bluegenes, posted 08-03-2011 1:38 PM frako has replied

frako
Member (Idle past 328 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 187 of 366 (627707)
08-03-2011 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by bluegenes
08-03-2011 1:38 PM


nope it is nothing until it happens

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by bluegenes, posted 08-03-2011 1:38 PM bluegenes has not replied

frako
Member (Idle past 328 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 253 of 366 (627917)
08-05-2011 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by GDR
08-04-2011 7:15 PM


If all conscious life were to cease to exist, meaning that there was no means of observing or measuring anything, would anything continue to exist? If not, then it would follow that everything is nothing, which also means as others have written, that nothing is everything?
Hope that clears it all up.
I think I'll go to bed and ponder that for a decade or two.
If all conscious life were to cease to exist, meaning that there was no means of observing or measuring anything, would anything continue to exist? If not, then it would follow that everything is nothing, which also means as others have written, that nothing is everything?
Hope that clears it all up.
I think I'll go to bed and ponder that for a decade or two.
Thats the whole if a tree falls in the forest and no one can hear it dose it make a sound thing right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by GDR, posted 08-04-2011 7:15 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
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