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Author Topic:   The Ultimate Question - Why is there something rather than nothing?
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 91 of 366 (625322)
07-22-2011 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by AZPaul3
07-22-2011 9:24 AM


Re: Two Speculations
You got one you've heard somewhere haven't you? Just kick your shoes off, lean back, relax and join us.
Lister travelled back in time and sneezed the universe into existence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by AZPaul3, posted 07-22-2011 9:24 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Shield
Member (Idle past 2862 days)
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-29-2008


Message 92 of 366 (625371)
07-22-2011 6:14 PM


I dont remember where this is from
But it fits:
Student: Is it true that the foundation of the universe is paradox?
Master: Well, yes and no.

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by IamJoseph, posted 07-22-2011 11:08 PM Shield has not replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 93 of 366 (625388)
07-22-2011 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by cavediver
07-22-2011 7:29 AM


Re: Purpose
quote:
We have plenty of evidence of "something". We have no evidence for "nothing". So why would we postulate that before something there was nothing?
Can you have postivie w/o negative? Once we understand there is no ONE in the universe, technically speaking, we will see that nothing and something are post-universe paradigms. There is very deep scientific cadence n this deceptively simple verse:
'MAN AND WOMAN CREATED HE THEM' [Genesis].
Before asking how can anything be created, consider that it is nigh impossible for the first human to be male or female, then find another such life form with the exact reverse gender trait. Here, Genesis is saying the first human was a dual gendered life form, they then seperated to male and female. There is no alternative to this, otherwise it is not possible for an offspring to become male or female: the original host had to contain both attributes.
By subsequent example, Genesis is saying 'ALL' things in the universe emerged in a duality, each part specifically attributed to recognize, interact and align with its counter-part according to the directive program embedded in them. This is the deep meaning in Genesis: there is no ONE in the universe.
Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

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 Message 88 by cavediver, posted 07-22-2011 7:29 AM cavediver has not replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 94 of 366 (625389)
07-22-2011 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Shield
07-22-2011 6:14 PM


Re: I dont remember where this is from
Yes, its a paradox, for both the theologists and the scientiststs equally. We are given the B to Z; the A factor remains elusive and cannot be acquired voluntarilly or via the post-universe sciences and theologies. This is also why no Messiah or enlightened being has yet emerged - his/her job is to reveal the purpose of creation or the universe. We yet do not know WHY, while everything in the universe appears t work in wisdom. And a purposeless universe makes no sense.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Straggler, posted 07-23-2011 12:04 AM IamJoseph has replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 95 of 366 (625392)
07-23-2011 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by IamJoseph
07-22-2011 11:08 PM


Re: I dont remember where this is from
IAJ writes:
And a purposeless universe makes no sense.
But how can there be purpose unless there is something capable of intent?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by IamJoseph, posted 07-22-2011 11:08 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by IamJoseph, posted 07-23-2011 12:11 AM Straggler has replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 96 of 366 (625393)
07-23-2011 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Straggler
07-23-2011 12:04 AM


Re: I dont remember where this is from
quote:
IAJ writes:
And a purposeless universe makes no sense.
But how can there be purpose unless there is something capable of intent?
Sorry, that is wrong by a mindless mile. It is ubsurd to see no intentional and purposeful critical passage between H & O = water; water being indispensible for life on earth, and the anticipatory actions listed in Genesis before the advent of life. One can name millions of such examples which cater only to intent and purpose. This ancient deeply thought premise applies:
THE DINNER TABLE IS READY FOR THE GUESTS.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Straggler, posted 07-23-2011 12:04 AM Straggler has replied

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 Message 97 by Straggler, posted 07-23-2011 12:17 AM IamJoseph has not replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 97 of 366 (625394)
07-23-2011 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by IamJoseph
07-23-2011 12:11 AM


Re: I dont remember where this is from
So - Again - How can there be purpose without something capable of intent?
IAJ writes:
THE DINNER TABLE IS READY FOR THE GUESTS.
Erm.. OK.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by IamJoseph, posted 07-23-2011 12:11 AM IamJoseph has not replied

Black Cat
Junior Member (Idle past 4614 days)
Posts: 28
From: Canada
Joined: 07-21-2011


Message 98 of 366 (625396)
07-23-2011 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Dr Jack
07-22-2011 4:17 AM


Thank-you for your kind response Mr. Jack. You're right, I understand my error. bluegenes and Dr. A were trying to explain the same thing to me, but it makes more sense the way you explained it.
The question does seem impossible to answer. The only thing I can think of is that God is eternal, meaning He had no beginning and He has no end. That still doesn't answer the question of why He is there instead of not there, it just means He has always been there. The why seems impossible to answer.
Also, thank-you Stile for your polite replies to my posts.
Edited by Black Cat, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 99 of 366 (625410)
07-23-2011 2:29 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Chuck77
07-22-2011 6:33 AM


Re: Purpose
Chuck quoting definitions writes:
Purpose is a result, end, mean, aim, or goal of an action intentionally undertaken,[1] or of an object being brought into use or existence, whether or not the purpose was a primary or secondary effect. It is possible that an intentional act may have multiple and hierarchisated purposes, only some of which is primary intentions while the remainder are secondary (or tertiary or more) intentions.
How can there be an "end, mean, aim, or goal" unless there is something which has aims, means, goals etc...?
Chuck writes:
Without purpose what is there? NOTHING.
Which suggests that purpose is itself something.
So you have still failed to answer the question posed in this thread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Chuck77, posted 07-22-2011 6:33 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Chuck77, posted 07-23-2011 2:39 AM Straggler has replied

Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 100 of 366 (625412)
07-23-2011 2:32 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by cavediver
07-22-2011 7:29 AM


Re: Purpose
cavediver writes:
We have plenty of evidence of "something". We have no evidence for "nothing". So why would we postulate that before something there was nothing?
I have no idea Im just doing my best to sound smart like everyone else here who has no fracking idea how to answer the question
Other than that, I think "purpose" is a good option.
Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

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 Message 101 by Straggler, posted 07-23-2011 2:36 AM Chuck77 has not replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 101 of 366 (625414)
07-23-2011 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Chuck77
07-23-2011 2:32 AM


Re: Purpose
Chuck writes:
Other than that, I think "purpose" is a good option.
But it doesn't answer the question posed.
If there is a God he is sitting there asking himself why there is something rather than nothing and failing to answer the question in exactly the same way we are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Chuck77, posted 07-23-2011 2:32 AM Chuck77 has not replied

Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 102 of 366 (625416)
07-23-2011 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Straggler
07-23-2011 2:29 AM


Re: Purpose
Straggler writes:
So you have still failed to answer the question posed in this thread.
Oh thy great and wise straggles. What is thy take on said nothingness oh ye great one? What shall you dispence on our anxious ears as to why thine is something rather thine nothing oh wise and great leader of nothingness...
PURPOSE, is not MATTER, STRAGGLER. Maybe you should ask DrA if he meant something (material) or something( immaterial).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Straggler, posted 07-23-2011 2:29 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Straggler, posted 07-23-2011 5:46 AM Chuck77 has not replied

Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 103 of 366 (625418)
07-23-2011 2:48 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Dr Jack
07-22-2011 7:51 AM


Re: Purpose
Mr Jack writes:
Actually I made no positive assertion either way; I just challenged your assertion.
Holy easy batman. Mr Jack, your quite the risk taker. How bout YOU make an assetion and STOP ragging on everyone ELSES assertion to an impossible question.
Try not to criticize everyones idea of an answer with " I made no assertion, im just challenging yours" Great. You know, I havn't really wrote a thesis on nothingness you know?
I like women, ask me why I like tall blondes and I have no problem answering your challenge
I think were all here to give the best answers we got to the impossible question without trying to answer every single persons objection who never bothered to answer it in the first place.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Dr Jack, posted 07-22-2011 7:51 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Dr Jack, posted 07-25-2011 5:47 AM Chuck77 has not replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 104 of 366 (625443)
07-23-2011 5:46 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by Chuck77
07-23-2011 2:39 AM


Re: Purpose
Chuck writes:
What is thy take on said nothingness oh ye great one?
Why there is something rather than nothing is a question that no something will ever be able to answer.
Chuck writes:
PURPOSE, is not MATTER, STRAGGLER. Maybe you should ask DrA if he meant something (material) or something( immaterial).
I know what Dr A meant coz I have actually read the OP.
And by "something" we are talking about anything at all. Immaterial or otherwise.
Why is there something rather than literally nothing at all?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Chuck77, posted 07-23-2011 2:39 AM Chuck77 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by IamJoseph, posted 07-23-2011 9:35 PM Straggler has replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 105 of 366 (625544)
07-23-2011 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Straggler
07-23-2011 5:46 AM


Re: Purpose
The thing gets easier if one thinks positive and negative, and that both these are post-universe factors. Once there was no light or darkness; hard to imagine, but hey - once there was no imagination either. The buck stops at the second alphabet when we backtrack; the A is barred and elusive and represents the forbidden apple metaphor. There is nothing wrong with the human brain, except its wiring is limited. We cannot even fathom a new color.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Straggler, posted 07-23-2011 5:46 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Panda, posted 07-23-2011 10:11 PM IamJoseph has replied
 Message 107 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-23-2011 10:27 PM IamJoseph has replied
 Message 113 by Straggler, posted 07-24-2011 5:20 PM IamJoseph has not replied
 Message 120 by Straggler, posted 07-25-2011 8:42 AM IamJoseph has replied

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