Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,423 Year: 3,680/9,624 Month: 551/974 Week: 164/276 Day: 4/34 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Peer Review or BUST??
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1046 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 64 of 73 (625869)
07-26-2011 4:31 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Taq
07-26-2011 1:35 AM


Re: Peer review and censorship
Eve worse, it is the opinion of an ECONOMIST. I really doubt that an economist has a firm grasp of how papers are published in the hard sciences. Like I said before, peer review is not perfect but it is the gold standard. Of the scientists I know, I have never seen a worthy paper that was rejected outright by every journal it was submitted to.
I remember reading of a test of peer review in Physics journals (I have the reference at home, can find it later if you'd like), which took a bunch of articles published in mainstream journals by respected physicists. The names of the authors and insitutitions were replaced by made-up people and places, and any part of the article which identified the authors was changed - but the actual scientific content remained the same. Then, the articles were resubmitted to the same journals that ahd originally published them.
Only a couple noticed that this was the same article again, and the overwhelming majority were rejected, with often scathing criticisms from the reviewers. I'm not sure the pattern of peer review is that different in the hard sciences than it is in Economics.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that creationist articles have any scientific merit, but a paper submitted by Jebediah A Creationist from the Discovery Institute would be submitted to more critical review than a paper of equivalent merit by John G Famousphysicist from MIT.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Taq, posted 07-26-2011 1:35 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Pressie, posted 07-26-2011 4:47 AM caffeine has not replied
 Message 68 by Taq, posted 07-26-2011 10:23 AM caffeine has replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1046 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 69 of 73 (626138)
07-27-2011 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Taq
07-26-2011 10:23 AM


Re: Peer review and censorship
Were they rejected outright or did the reviewers ask for revisions? In my own field, it is very rare for the first submission to be accepted outright. The vast majority of papers are sent back with suggestions for revisions before they are resubmitted, and those suggestions are not consistent across reviewers. I am not suprised at all that new reviewers would send an already published paper back with suggestions for resubmission.
I don't remember. I'd have to find the original reference next time I'm at home and can post it here in more detail, if you're interested.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Taq, posted 07-26-2011 10:23 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Taq, posted 07-27-2011 12:13 PM caffeine has replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1046 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 71 of 73 (627628)
08-03-2011 3:28 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Taq
07-27-2011 12:13 PM


Re: Peer review and censorship
So I found the book I got this from. The reference for the original study is:
Peters, D. K. and Ceci S. J., 'Peer review practices of learned journals: the fate of published articles submitted again', The Brhavioural and Brain Sciences, 1982, 5, 187-255.
I'd remembered it wrongly though - it was psychology journals, not physics journals. The book I'm getting this from ('Irrationality' by Stuart Sutherland) does go on to very briefly discuss a review of bias based on 619 articles published in physics journals which concludes that it's easier to get published for established names, but it doesn't explain how they concluded this or even cite where this review;s from, so I don't know what to make of it.
Anyway, the original Psychology study (according to the description in the book - can't find the article online) resubmitted 12 articles. Three were recognised as resubmissions, one was accepted, and the remaining eight were rejected, in each case firmly rejected by all three reviewers. The book only has a few brief quote from the review articles, but it tries to give the impression that they were rejected outright. Make of this what you will!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Taq, posted 07-27-2011 12:13 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Taq, posted 08-03-2011 2:07 PM caffeine has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024