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Author Topic:   Group of atheists has filed a lawsuit
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 1 of 479 (626142)
07-27-2011 12:49 PM


Just something to chew on.
quote:
A group of atheists has filed a lawsuit claiming the display of the World Trade Center cross at the 9/11 memorial in lower Manhattan is unconstitutional, calling it a "mingling of church and state."
Read more:
quote:
On Sunday, NBC removed the words "under God" from a reading of the Pledge of Allegiance at the opening of the U.S. Open Golf Championship.
Newsbusters' Noel Sheppard writes the network omitted the phrase "twice during the show's introduction."
Later in the broadcast, NBC apologized for the omission, but as Newsbusters' Mark Finkelstein reports, the network "compounded one omission with another," by failing to mention the phrase they left out: "under God."
read more:
NBC showed some balls for the briefest of moments, and then caved. I cant believe I am just now reading about this, I must have been drinking heavy that week. Was it mentioned here by anyone?

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Larni, posted 07-27-2011 1:02 PM fearandloathing has replied
 Message 3 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-27-2011 1:07 PM fearandloathing has replied
 Message 200 by IamJoseph, posted 08-15-2011 5:55 AM fearandloathing has seen this message but not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 4 of 479 (626149)
07-27-2011 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Larni
07-27-2011 1:02 PM


Any religion should be free to put up their icons as well.
Wheres the beef?
I thought the same thing, I think it would be nice for some artist to be able to get some scrap from the trade center and make a sculpture that would include a bit of all the religions of the people who died that day. JMO I think it might make a bold statement that Christians were not the only ones who died that day, and ask the atheist what they would like as a representation.
I think they are bitchin just to bitch, very troll like IMO.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Larni, posted 07-27-2011 1:02 PM Larni has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by frako, posted 07-27-2011 1:56 PM fearandloathing has replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 5 of 479 (626151)
07-27-2011 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by New Cat's Eye
07-27-2011 1:07 PM


Just know as much as the link I provided. I guess the memorial is a national park so they would be suing the park service maybe?... seems like a bunch of frivolous BS to me.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-27-2011 1:07 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-27-2011 1:24 PM fearandloathing has replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 7 of 479 (626155)
07-27-2011 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by New Cat's Eye
07-27-2011 1:24 PM


It wouldn't be nearly as awesome without your input. Fox just broke it 4 hours ago, I cant seem to find anything else on it yet. I just thought I would put it out there and see what others thought. I could make shit up or post smartass replies if you like?

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-27-2011 1:24 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 9 of 479 (626164)
07-27-2011 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by New Cat's Eye
07-27-2011 1:07 PM


After a little digging it seems that the Port Authority, which is building the Memorial, would be who is getting sued.
quote:
The American Atheists, which advocates an "absolute separation" of government and religion, filed the lawsuit Monday to stop the display of the cross, arguing that it should not be included if "no other religions or philosophies will be honored," according to a statement on the group's website.
Read more:
Does this help?

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-27-2011 1:07 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 10 of 479 (626166)
07-27-2011 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by frako
07-27-2011 1:56 PM


Well it seems the atheist agree with you.
quote:
arguing that it should not be included if "no other religions or philosophies will be honored,

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by frako, posted 07-27-2011 1:56 PM frako has not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


(1)
Message 12 of 479 (626176)
07-27-2011 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Modulous
07-27-2011 2:06 PM


Thanks for the info Mod,
After looking over the info Mod produced I have to say it seems they have a valid argument. If we allow one religious symbol then we should allow all the religious symbols of the people who died that day. My initial position of it being frivolous BS was wrong, If I had paid closer attention to what I linked too I would've seen this sooner. I was wrong.
AbE Funny as it may be, but atheist seem to be fighting for, what they feel, should be the right of all/any religion who was effected that day.
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Modulous, posted 07-27-2011 2:06 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-27-2011 4:46 PM fearandloathing has replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


(3)
Message 15 of 479 (626200)
07-27-2011 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Artemis Entreri
07-27-2011 4:46 PM


I think you just want a discussion so you have switched sides, which is fine, let's discuss.
I made a quick decision based on less than all the facts, I have said I think I was wrong initially. What is to discuss?? Are you accusing me of being a troll? What is wrong with changing ones mind based on more, or, further interpretation of the available facts?

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-27-2011 4:46 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-27-2011 5:08 PM fearandloathing has replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 17 of 479 (626204)
07-27-2011 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Artemis Entreri
07-27-2011 5:08 PM


Why are you so defensive?
Probably cuase once again I have stuck my foot in my mouth.. I should be used to it by now.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Artemis Entreri, posted 07-27-2011 5:08 PM Artemis Entreri has seen this message but not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


(1)
Message 44 of 479 (626307)
07-28-2011 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by hooah212002
07-28-2011 10:36 AM


Suggestions or complaints
If anyone would like to make a suggestion or a complaint can do so here.
quote:
You may use either of the following two methods to submit a report:
Within the United States, Guam, Puerto Rico and Canada, dial 888-332-3580 (Toll-free)
or
Select the "Make a Report" link on the top of this web page.
It would be nice to see some evidence of another religious group being denied placement of their star of david ect...It would go a long ways toward the atheist case.
quote:
Museum officials said the cross was being displayed not because of its religious value but the role it played in the aftermath of the attacks.
"The mission of the National September 11 Memorial Museum is to tell the history of 9/11 through historic artifacts like the World Trade Center cross. This steel remnant became a symbol of spiritual comfort for the thousands of recovery workers who toiled at ground zero, as well as for people around the world," museum president Joe Daniels said in a statement.
It seems from this statement they are confused. If it is not being displayed for its religious value then why would the president Joe Daniels mention the spiritual comfort it provided. If it truly isn't meant to represent religion then flip it 90 degrees maybe. It seems it would be easier just to make a public statement saying they would be willing to allow other faiths or non- faiths to display their icons also, seems like an easy way to appease all involved if they don't have a Christian agenda.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by hooah212002, posted 07-28-2011 10:36 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 143 of 479 (627805)
08-04-2011 10:10 AM


Death Threats
I was looking at the American Atheist blog about the WTC cross and ran across this about death threats being posted against atheist on the Fox News Facebook page. It never ceases to amaze me how some Christians, or believers in god, can justify killing atheist or anyone they feel is doing them an injustice. Do they think this is what their God wants? I cant think of any New testament support for these views, in fact doesn't the NT teach the opposite?
I am only going to post a couple of these, the link provides about 18 examples of this hate. I am sure some are just trolls, but not all,
After witnessing this kind of intolerance from some in the Christian camp time and again it makes me glad I am godless, some religions seem to mess some people up.
This whole thing would be a non-issue if the WTC museum had of accepted the AA offer of an additional memorial/statue that would've better represented all Americans that died that day. A win win IMO. I wonder if the families of the non-Americans killed that day will get to display a flag or something to remind the visitors that Americans weren't the only ones to die.
I sent a message to the WTC museum asking them if they would even consider the AA offer...their response was "No comment at this time". I expected that with a pending court case though, I doubt CS will get a response from the AA for the same reason.
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by hooah212002, posted 08-04-2011 11:31 AM fearandloathing has replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 146 of 479 (627822)
08-04-2011 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by hooah212002
08-04-2011 11:31 AM


Re: Death Threats
.I thought the structure had no religious value or implication
Apparently it does for some, maybe the WTC museum should distance themselves from these nuts.
Fox News has deleted that whole page from FB, they knew what they were doing by asking for comments was stirring up a shit-storm for the sake of ratings, a little hate and intolerance goes a long way.
AbE
quote:
Bloomberg said that, though the group has the right to sue, he personally believes that the inclusion of religious symbols at the 9/11 museum should be allowed
Read more..
Bloomberg thinks it's religious.
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by hooah212002, posted 08-04-2011 11:31 AM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by hooah212002, posted 08-04-2011 11:53 AM fearandloathing has seen this message but not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 159 of 479 (627943)
08-05-2011 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Straggler
08-05-2011 2:11 PM


Re: Crucifix or Girders
Then why not display then object on it's side (or whatever)?
Side=ok...flip it 180= not so good Unless your a Satanist
Sorry, couldn't resist.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Straggler, posted 08-05-2011 2:11 PM Straggler has not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 237 of 479 (629254)
08-16-2011 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by cavediver
08-16-2011 3:38 PM


Re: "Secular Purpose"...........?
Unfortunately it was found as it is shown, hence the religious aspect, if it was lying down it would've been just a piece of cross shaped scrap, I am sure there was many.
Here is at least one different one, top pix, that didn't gain notoriety. Bottom one is the one at the memorial.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by cavediver, posted 08-16-2011 3:38 PM cavediver has not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 239 of 479 (629256)
08-16-2011 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by antitheistsCOUK
08-16-2011 5:13 PM


Re: A cross seems quite apt
No they suggested a fireman carrying a victim, seems much more appropriate IMO.
Welcome to EvC.
AbE,
Personally I think this image would make a fine statue, sort of reminds me of a picture of a group of marines raising a flag. That picture made a fine statue for the Marine Corps War Memorial.
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by antitheistsCOUK, posted 08-16-2011 5:13 PM antitheistsCOUK has not replied

  
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