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Author Topic:   United States Debt Default
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 157 of 211 (626245)
07-28-2011 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by Phat
07-27-2011 11:24 PM


Re: Dark Times Ahead Here
even with the most popular Democrat since Clinton in office
The only Democrat since Clinton; which isn't much special considering we only had one other guy in between them.
even with a virtually balance House and Senate
Balanced in what way?
if these programs are cut, we will be entering a very dark time in US History.
Dark Times are already upon us.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Phat, posted 07-27-2011 11:24 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 160 of 211 (626251)
07-28-2011 12:49 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Coyote
07-27-2011 11:42 PM


Re: Dark Times Ahead
There aren't enough "wealthy" to make much of a difference.
But they have enough wealth.
The problem is on the other end of the scale.
Prove it.
what we really need is a way to make some of those folks pay some taxes
Easily done:
Hey rich people; Coyote wants you to pay your employees fair wages instead of stealing all the wealth they generate and keeping it for yourselves. That way they can pay more in taxes.
There. Fixed.
The problem we have is that we are subsidizing unproductive citizens.
Didn't know we lived in a nation that let people starve to death on the basis of their 'productivity' (likely measured by you as a function of how much wealth they can generate and funnel into the pockets of the rich).
There are a number of folks who we genuinely need to help or support, but that number is far smaller than those currently being supported.
Yes; clearly we are doing too much. That's why there are no homeless people, no hungry people, no poor people. We obviously already helped all the people who 'we genuinely need to help or support'all the rest has just been overkill.
I hate to say it, but I guess I am no longer shocked when I find a person whose scientific prowess does nothing to prevent mind-numbing stupidity in other fields of thought.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Coyote, posted 07-27-2011 11:42 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 161 of 211 (626255)
07-28-2011 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by crashfrog
07-28-2011 12:41 AM


Re: Straight Up
They're already money. When the Federal Reserve Bank buys $10 in quarters, they're making change, not buying debt.
I never said they were buying debt. They are giving the Treasury something of real value in exchange for I.O.U. trinkets. It represents a debt of the Treasury, as indicated by the Wiki article you quoted calling the coins 'obligations' of the Treasury. Obligation = Debt.
I've already explained to CS how "direct obligation of the Treasury" just means "money."
Nope; you sure didn't.
If you present a quarter to the Treasury, they're obligated to give you 25 cents for it.
So you say.
it doesn't gain interest
Neither does the money I borrow from my parents; still debt.
there's no obligation of repayment to be met.
Of course there is. Read the link you posted.
And again all they have to do is walk the coins over to a bank and deposit them in a checking account. They're money, so the bank has no reason not to take them. And once they're in an account checks can be written against that money, just like your checking account at your bank.
That's not how it works.
What does the bank give the Treasury except numbers in an account?
Read the link you posted; it's all in there.
No, they won't. Treasury debts are denominated in dollars, not in gold or silver. Hasn't been for decades, Jon. Don't you hear Buz complaining about that all the time? When you take your quarter to the Treasury to make a claim against their "obligation", what do you think you get?
You don't get gold or silver. You get 25 cents. Debts in the United States are denominated in dollars and cents, not in gold or silver. That's because dollars are a fiat currency. I mean jesus, Jon we talked about this for weeks not too long ago. Were you just completely not paying any attention?
Oh well. Why don't I ever learn?
You're hopeless.
Always have been.
Always will be.
My time is best spent elsewhere.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by crashfrog, posted 07-28-2011 12:41 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by crashfrog, posted 07-28-2011 12:23 PM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 164 of 211 (626259)
07-28-2011 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by Coyote
07-28-2011 1:05 AM


The Big Print
"Nearly half of US households escape fed income tax
Recession, new tax credits have nearly half of US households paying no federal income tax"
Key words are key...
They unlock all the meaning and prove to everyone that you are good at misusing sources when it suits you.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Coyote, posted 07-28-2011 1:05 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 187 of 211 (626929)
07-31-2011 11:12 PM


Cave or Default?
In the long run, would it be better to cave to the republicans (which is what it seems is going to happenas usual) or to bicker on the issue until the government defaults?
At the moment, I don't see how there will be much difference for the poor; the republicans are stripping the welfare system to the bones in order to make sure the wealthy can keep their yachts and mansions. I have some feeling, however, that a default might actually benefit the country by opening eyes.
Then again, when Americans open their eyes it is usually only for a while before they roll over and go back to sleep.
What might be better in the long run? Caving to the republicans or letting them cause a default?
Jon

Love your enemies!

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by Phat, posted 07-31-2011 11:15 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 191 of 211 (626973)
08-01-2011 5:06 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Phat
07-31-2011 11:15 PM


Re: Cave or Default?
It would hurt people like my Mom. Her stocks and bonds assets/nest egg would likely decrease in value 10-20%.
I never said that a failure to reach a deal would be easy to weather. But the plans that republicans force through with their hostage crisis tactics are hardly cause for celebration either.
The point I was trying to make with my question was whether or not it would be better in the long run to finally let the republicans destroy the government instead of always caving in to their hostage bluffs which destroy the government, albeit less transparently and more slowly.
The republicans have created a nice hostage situation in which their failure has such catastrophic consequences that few folk are willing to let it happen. Granted this is not a guarantee on success, but it is an almost certain guarantee against failure. And that doesn't seem to get them voted out of office begging for government handoutswhere they should be.
So, would it be better to let the republicans fail for once?
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Phat, posted 07-31-2011 11:15 PM Phat has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 193 of 211 (627405)
08-02-2011 11:35 AM


Campaign to Misinform
And the media campaign of misinformation begins:
Debt Compromise Set for U.S. Senate Vote Amid Doubts
Apparently 'compromise' is now defined as one side giving in completely to the other side.
So long as the more reasonable people continue to give in to these brute cave thugs, they will only move forward more assured of the effectiveness of holding government hostage as a means of getting everything they want.
I am appalled that they were not stood up to.
Jon

Love your enemies!

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by hooah212002, posted 08-02-2011 11:55 AM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 195 of 211 (627415)
08-02-2011 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by hooah212002
08-02-2011 11:55 AM


One Word
Indeed. The right got damn near everything they wanted. And they gloat about it.
Indeed. The right got damn near everything they wanted. And they gloat about it.
Disgusting.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by hooah212002, posted 08-02-2011 11:55 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by crashfrog, posted 08-02-2011 12:37 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 197 of 211 (627418)
08-02-2011 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by crashfrog
08-02-2011 12:37 PM


Re: One Word
Jon, lately I've been sensing a bit of a sea change in your political views.
Is that something you would like to comment on?
I haven't sensed a change. If you'd describe what you think has changed, then I'd be glad to comment.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by crashfrog, posted 08-02-2011 12:37 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Phat, posted 08-02-2011 12:40 PM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 199 of 211 (628241)
08-08-2011 12:32 AM


Credit Downgrade
Seems like the place to put this.
S&P downgraded the U.S. from AAA to AA as a result of this fiasco.
What, if any, fallout is likely from this?
Jon

Love your enemies!

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by AZPaul3, posted 08-08-2011 2:59 AM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
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