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Author Topic:   The Ultimate Question - Why is there something rather than nothing?
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 211 of 366 (627787)
08-04-2011 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by Black Cat
08-04-2011 8:18 AM


Re: Round and round...
In message 150 of this thread, Black Cat summarizes what he considers to be his key point. It goes as follows:
  • W.L.C is summarizing Dawkins' arguments by quoting him directly.
    Do you see any problem with the above?

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 208 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 8:18 AM Black Cat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 212 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 8:36 AM Straggler has replied

    Black Cat
    Junior Member (Idle past 4632 days)
    Posts: 28
    From: Canada
    Joined: 07-21-2011


    Message 212 of 366 (627790)
    08-04-2011 8:36 AM
    Reply to: Message 211 by Straggler
    08-04-2011 8:31 AM


    Re: Round and round...
    I do, that's not an accurate summary of what I wrote.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 211 by Straggler, posted 08-04-2011 8:31 AM Straggler has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 213 by Straggler, posted 08-04-2011 8:38 AM Black Cat has not replied

    Straggler
    Member
    Posts: 10333
    From: London England
    Joined: 09-30-2006


    (1)
    Message 213 of 366 (627791)
    08-04-2011 8:38 AM
    Reply to: Message 212 by Black Cat
    08-04-2011 8:36 AM


    Re: Round and round...
    And what suggested to you that it was intended to be an accurate summary of what you wrote?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 212 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 8:36 AM Black Cat has not replied

    bluegenes
    Member (Idle past 2496 days)
    Posts: 3119
    From: U.K.
    Joined: 01-24-2007


    Message 214 of 366 (627793)
    08-04-2011 8:52 AM
    Reply to: Message 210 by Black Cat
    08-04-2011 8:31 AM


    Re: Round and round...
    Straggler writes:
    Is absolute nothingness an "alternative reality"....? I would have thought absolute nothingness would be no reality at all?
    Which is pretty much what I was saying in the post further up that you replied to. The absence of everything includes the absence of all possible realities. I was saying to Paul that describing nothing as a state of reality is describing nothing as something.
    {Sorry, BlackCat, that was meant to be a reply to a Straggler post}
    Nothing also excludes all possibilities, because they are things. So, if "no reality" is a possibility, it gets excluded.
    So, nothing is impossible.
    Edited by bluegenes, : Replied to wrong post

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 210 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 8:31 AM Black Cat has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 215 by Straggler, posted 08-04-2011 8:58 AM bluegenes has replied

    Straggler
    Member
    Posts: 10333
    From: London England
    Joined: 09-30-2006


    Message 215 of 366 (627794)
    08-04-2011 8:58 AM
    Reply to: Message 214 by bluegenes
    08-04-2011 8:52 AM


    Re: Round and round...
    Possibly........

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 214 by bluegenes, posted 08-04-2011 8:52 AM bluegenes has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 216 by bluegenes, posted 08-04-2011 9:01 AM Straggler has replied

    bluegenes
    Member (Idle past 2496 days)
    Posts: 3119
    From: U.K.
    Joined: 01-24-2007


    Message 216 of 366 (627795)
    08-04-2011 9:01 AM
    Reply to: Message 215 by Straggler
    08-04-2011 8:58 AM


    Re: Round and round...
    Straggler writes:
    Possibly........
    Nothingness also excludes doubt.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 215 by Straggler, posted 08-04-2011 8:58 AM Straggler has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 217 by Straggler, posted 08-04-2011 9:05 AM bluegenes has replied

    Straggler
    Member
    Posts: 10333
    From: London England
    Joined: 09-30-2006


    Message 217 of 366 (627796)
    08-04-2011 9:05 AM
    Reply to: Message 216 by bluegenes
    08-04-2011 9:01 AM


    Re: Round and round...
    And certainty too.....?
    I guess.......

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 216 by bluegenes, posted 08-04-2011 9:01 AM bluegenes has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 218 by bluegenes, posted 08-04-2011 9:13 AM Straggler has replied

    bluegenes
    Member (Idle past 2496 days)
    Posts: 3119
    From: U.K.
    Joined: 01-24-2007


    Message 218 of 366 (627798)
    08-04-2011 9:13 AM
    Reply to: Message 217 by Straggler
    08-04-2011 9:05 AM


    Re: Round and round...
    Straggler writes:
    And certainty too.....?
    I guess.......
    Sure. And place and time and its own existence/being and all possible realities, and itself as a state, and itself as an alternative to something.
    No doubt about all that.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 217 by Straggler, posted 08-04-2011 9:05 AM Straggler has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 219 by Straggler, posted 08-04-2011 9:18 AM bluegenes has replied

    Straggler
    Member
    Posts: 10333
    From: London England
    Joined: 09-30-2006


    Message 219 of 366 (627800)
    08-04-2011 9:18 AM
    Reply to: Message 218 by bluegenes
    08-04-2011 9:13 AM


    Re: Round and round...
    So what would we call the absence of even the possibility of any states of reality?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 218 by bluegenes, posted 08-04-2011 9:13 AM bluegenes has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 221 by bluegenes, posted 08-04-2011 9:42 AM Straggler has replied

    Panda
    Member (Idle past 3732 days)
    Posts: 2688
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-04-2010


    Message 220 of 366 (627801)
    08-04-2011 9:40 AM
    Reply to: Message 210 by Black Cat
    08-04-2011 8:31 AM


    Re: Round and round...
    Black Cat writes:
    Where in this sentence does Dr. Craig claim to be quoting directly?
    Here's my answer - again:
    Dr. Craig writes:
    On pages 157-8 of his book, Dawkins summarizes what he calls "the central argument of my book." It goes as follows:
    Black Cat writes:
    Remember quoting the whole sentence is not an answer to my question.
    Why should I remember something that is not true?
    "The ball is red."
    Which part of that sentence identifies the ball as red?
    "The"? No.
    "Red"? No.
    "The ball"? Nope.
    "ball is"? Still nope.
    "The ball is red."? Yes! Oh no - I quoted the whole sentence.
    Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 210 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 8:31 AM Black Cat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 222 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 10:31 AM Panda has replied

    bluegenes
    Member (Idle past 2496 days)
    Posts: 3119
    From: U.K.
    Joined: 01-24-2007


    Message 221 of 366 (627804)
    08-04-2011 9:42 AM
    Reply to: Message 219 by Straggler
    08-04-2011 9:18 AM


    The absence of possibilities
    Straggler writes:
    So what would we call the absence of even the possibility of any states of reality?
    One of the qualifications of nothingness.
    Mind you, the absence of everything includes the absence of qualifications.
    The absence of the possibility of being an alternative to something is one that's interesting, because the O.P. question is:
    "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 219 by Straggler, posted 08-04-2011 9:18 AM Straggler has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 243 by Straggler, posted 08-04-2011 6:09 PM bluegenes has replied

    Black Cat
    Junior Member (Idle past 4632 days)
    Posts: 28
    From: Canada
    Joined: 07-21-2011


    Message 222 of 366 (627809)
    08-04-2011 10:31 AM
    Reply to: Message 220 by Panda
    08-04-2011 9:40 AM


    Re: Round and round...
    Let me rephrase my question again.
    Dr. Craig writes:
    On pages 157-8 of his book, Dawkins summarizes what he calls "the central argument of my book." It goes as follows:
    How does the above sentence provide support for your claim that Dr. Craig claimed to be quoting directly? It's quite evident that he's not claiming to quote directly.
    Edited by Black Cat, : No reason given.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 220 by Panda, posted 08-04-2011 9:40 AM Panda has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 224 by Panda, posted 08-04-2011 10:47 AM Black Cat has replied

    Black Cat
    Junior Member (Idle past 4632 days)
    Posts: 28
    From: Canada
    Joined: 07-21-2011


    Message 223 of 366 (627811)
    08-04-2011 10:47 AM
    Reply to: Message 159 by Dr Adequate
    08-02-2011 11:24 AM


    So when he says crane, he's referring to a probable explanation?
    I don't see a difference in meaning between the following:
    We don't have an equivalent explanation for physics.
    We don't yet have an equivalent probable explanation for physics.
    I don't see how W.L.C damaged the accuracy or intent of his statement. If you could explain this to me I would appreciate it.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 159 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-02-2011 11:24 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 229 by Straggler, posted 08-04-2011 11:51 AM Black Cat has not replied

    Panda
    Member (Idle past 3732 days)
    Posts: 2688
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-04-2010


    Message 224 of 366 (627812)
    08-04-2011 10:47 AM
    Reply to: Message 222 by Black Cat
    08-04-2011 10:31 AM


    Re: Round and round...
    How does the above sentence provide support for your claim that Dr. Craig claimed to be quoting directly?
    So...you couldn't answer the previous ball question, then?
    Too difficult?
    Here's another for you to try:
    "The ball is maroon."
    How does the above sentence provide support for the claim that the ball is red?
    Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 222 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 10:31 AM Black Cat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 225 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 10:55 AM Panda has replied

    Black Cat
    Junior Member (Idle past 4632 days)
    Posts: 28
    From: Canada
    Joined: 07-21-2011


    Message 225 of 366 (627814)
    08-04-2011 10:55 AM
    Reply to: Message 224 by Panda
    08-04-2011 10:47 AM


    Re: Round and round...
    I'm waiting for you to answer my question. Let me know when you're prepared to do so.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 224 by Panda, posted 08-04-2011 10:47 AM Panda has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 226 by Panda, posted 08-04-2011 11:07 AM Black Cat has replied

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