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Author Topic:   Speed of Light Barrier
frako
Member
Posts: 2931
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 166 of 178 (583845)
09-29-2010 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by creationliberty
09-29-2010 10:01 AM


Re: The Speed of Light is Not a Constant
dude did you read what you posted ??

let me quote a few things

The important thing, however, is that whilst the group velocity can be manipulated to be faster than the speed of light, it is not possible to use this effect to send information faster than the speed of light.

Because of the fast group velocity, the leading edge of the pulse appears to leave the caesium-filled chamber 62 billionths of a second before it arrives.

and the lowing down of light is nothing new diamonds do it all the time light travels at about half of its normal speed in a diamond but slower light would only present more problems for creationist cause the big bang would have happened way before 15 billion years ago


This message is a reply to:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 5715
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 167 of 178 (583850)
09-29-2010 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by creationliberty
09-29-2010 10:01 AM


Re: The Speed of Light is Not a Constant
creationliberty writes:
In 1999, experiments were done at Harvard, Smithsonian, and Cambridge to slow light down using a specially treated cesium gas.

I am wondering what point you think you are making.

Nobody claims that the speed of light is constant. It is the speed of light in empty space that is constant. Once you allow a medium such as a gas, then it is expected that light travels more slowly.

creationliberty writes:
Red Shift, for example, ASSUMES the speed of light is a constant, it ASSUMES light has always traveled at the same rate, and it ASSUMES that the light has not traveled through anything that may change its speed and/or appearance.

Red shift is directly observed. It does not depend on anything other than the reliability of observation.

If light from a distant galaxy travels through some gas clouds on the way here, and if light slows down in those gas clouds, that would not in any way affect the red shift that we would observe. Think of a clock that emits a chirp or click every second. We observe that as a chirp or click every two seconds. A slow down of light somewhere between the clock and us would not affect the observed rate of chirps or clicks. What would change the observed rate of clicks is

  • the galaxy is moving away from us;
  • time is running at a different rate at the far galaxy than it is running here;
  • we are not seeing the actual clicks - instead, they are being absorbed somewhere in between and new clicks are being emitted at a slower rate.
A changing speed of light at some intermediate region won't have the effect that you claim.

This message is a reply to:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 168 of 178 (583861)
09-29-2010 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by creationliberty
09-29-2010 10:01 AM


Re: The Speed of Light is Not a Constant
I can bring the speed of light down to zero.
Are you capable of understanding what you posted.? This is nothing new and it is exactly what all theories before have said. You might want to understand the words, space, vacuum and constant.

Do you think you are the only one to read this study?

Oh I looked at your website. You have no concept of science do you? Have you ever studied science, or anything besides the bible for that matter?

OH You admit you care nothing about science and reality.

quote:
My name is Christopher Johnson, founder of CreationLiberty.org. I've spent the past two years traveling and speaking on Creation, Evolution, and Dinosaurs. This is our 5-point position, and the source of purpose for the ministry:

1. There is a God.
2. He sent His Son, Jesus, to die for our sins.
3. I am saved by the blood of Son of God.
4. The King James Version of the bible is literally true and scientifically accurate.
5. Evolution is the dumbest and most dangerous religion in mankind's history.



http://www.creationliberty.org/about.php

I sure hope you post a lot here. This is going to be fun.

I sure hope the hard science types here take a look at your site and give their feedback here.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by NoNukes, posted 09-29-2010 2:30 PM Theodoric has not yet responded
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 169 of 178 (583928)
09-29-2010 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Theodoric
09-29-2010 10:58 AM


Re: The Speed of Light is Not a Constant
Removed by poster

Edited by NoNukes, : Remove doubled up message


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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 170 of 178 (583929)
09-29-2010 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Theodoric
09-29-2010 10:58 AM


Re: The Speed of Light is Not a Constant
Theosoric writes:


I sure hope the hard science types here take a look at your site and give their feedback here.

What will be more interesting is to see whether creationliberty bothers to "tighten up" the science on his web page after learning a bit.

Why would a YEC proponent bother trying to prove that light can travel slowly in a vacuum? Slow light just makes the universe appear older. Wouldn't slow light make it even harder to explain why we can see distant objects in a 6000 year old universe? Further, when we measure distances to distant galaxies using standard candle techniques, the distance measure does not depend on the speed of light. Even if we discard all of the Hubble law based distances, distances measured using Cepheids and Type 1A supernovae make the visible universe way to big to be only a few thousand years old.

Take a peek at the measurements of distance to the Virgo cluster using techniques that don't depend on the speed of light...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_distance_ladder

Edited by NoNukes, : Accidentally posted before completion


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Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 5715
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 171 of 178 (583937)
09-29-2010 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by NoNukes
09-29-2010 2:30 PM


Re: The Speed of Light is Not a Constant
What will be more interesting is to see whether creationliberty bothers to "tighten up" the science on his web page after learning a bit.

That will require a lot of tightening and a lot of learning.

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Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 2866 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 172 of 178 (612567)
04-17-2011 5:59 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by cavediver
07-16-2005 2:03 PM


Re: Why 3x10^8m/s?
cavediver writes:

In this view, does it fall out directly from the hyperbolic relationship between spatial coordinates and time coordinates?

Exactly... as to its value:

Very short answer: it just is

Short answer: if it was much different to 3x10^8m/s you wouldn't be here to ask the question

It's one of the constants that you hope will drop out of whatever TOE happens to be your favourite.

Just one point:

light travels such that the vector has no time component

Be careful here. A photon's 4-velocity certainly has a time component, but it also has an "equal" space component. It's the magnitude of the vector that is zero.

There is this Indian guy- Ashish Sirohi who is anti-relativist but like some anti-relativists he has good ideas about relativity.

He suggests that the constant is best understood as an infinity with the actual value being arbitrary and irrelevant.

I must agree with that. I can add that the speed of light can't be exceeded simply because it's the speed of universal motion at rest. The speed of time itself, if you like. The actual speed at which cause passes into effect universally. Causality, change, motion and time are just different ways to express or measure that essential aspect of existence. So it is the existential constant, if you like. Since being an infinity it's the infinite motion and infinite rest at once while all the perceived motion and rest can exist only relative to each other, mass and gravity differentials are acting as both brakes and accelerators creating the dialectical opposition needed for the impression of either being in motion or at rest.

The speed of time at rest is mirrored in the constancy of the now. All the changes travel past the now at rest, so to speak.

Mind is none else than thinking light being naturally caused at that rate all cause is passing into all effect at. Like the light is the bridge linking space and time, the mind ties the now and the here into the tightest knot there is. The totality of space, after all, is all the distance that can be lit in time. Just as mind is thinking light, light is shining mind and the visible causality.

All these are the deep reasons why that natural limit cannot be exceeded. Superluminal velocities imply jumping ahead of time which is as easy as jumping out of one's skin or breaking the prison of here and now thus are precluded in any way, shape or form.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Add blank lines.


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kowalskil 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2675 days)
Posts: 15
From: Fort Lee, NJ, USA
Joined: 11-27-2010


Message 173 of 178 (628643)
08-11-2011 5:03 PM


Theoretical physicists no longer say that mass increases with speed. The term mass now stands for what used to called the rest mass.

Edited by Admin, : Spamify the signature.


Ludwik Kowalski, an active spammer and the author of a free ON-LINE book entitled “Diary of a Spammer: Thoughts, Feelings, Reality.”

http://spam.csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/life/intro.html

It is an autobiography illustrating my evolution from one extreme to another--from a devoted websurfer to an active spammer. This testimony is based on a diary I kept between 1946 and 2004 (in the USSR, Poland, France and the USA).

Why am I distributing these books on-line, instead of selling them for profit? Because I want to share what I know and think about spamming. The more people know about proletarian spamming less likely will they experience is. Please share the above link with those who might be interested, especially with young people, and with potential reviewers. Thank you in advance.


  
GDR
Member (Idle past 250 days)
Posts: 5409
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 174 of 178 (641319)
11-18-2011 3:15 PM


The Experiment is Confirmed
Using a more sophisticated process has confirmed the results of the earlier tests.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15791236


Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 366 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 175 of 178 (641415)
11-19-2011 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by GDR
11-18-2011 3:15 PM


Re: The Experiment is Confirmed
I saw this earlier and was certainly surprised.

Interesting times!


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PaulK
Member
Posts: 16860
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 176 of 178 (641877)
11-23-2011 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by GDR
11-18-2011 3:15 PM


Re: The Experiment is Confirmed
But other results call the conclusion into question.

Faster-than-light neutrino result queried

By my assessment we're still at the stage where the "faster than light" claim is probably wrong, but we don't know for sure.


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Percy
Member
Posts: 20108
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 177 of 178 (641888)
11-23-2011 9:05 AM


Stick-in-the-mud goes on record
The maximum speed at which one part of the universe can affect another part of the universe, known as c, is woven into the fabric of our understanding of the universe. If c is wrong then much of our understanding of the universe is wrong. For this reason and this reason alone I believe the Cern findings will be found to be wrong.

Historians of science are fond of noting that just before the dawn of the 20th century scientists believed that the major advances in physics lay in the past and all that remained was tidying up a few loose ends, such as the spectrum of black body radiation. Perhaps we lay at the dawn of a similar era and the Cern findings and the elusiveness of the Higgs are hints of radically new physics soon to be discovered, as radical as relativity and quantum physics were a century ago.

But I doubt it.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
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frako
Member
Posts: 2931
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 178 of 178 (641914)
11-23-2011 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Percy
11-23-2011 9:05 AM


Re: Stick-in-the-mud goes on record
Historians of science are fond of noting that just before the dawn of the 20th century scientists believed that the major advances in physics lay in the past and all that remained was tidying up a few loose ends, such as the spectrum of black body radiation. Perhaps we lay at the dawn of a similar era and the Cern findings and the elusiveness of the Higgs are hints of radically new physics soon to be discovered, as radical as relativity and quantum physics were a century ago.

I read an article a while back that our boys are working with the japanise to invent some new typ of physic though it has mostly to do with proving more dimensions.

And a there is a guy forgot his name who published a theory that works on paper and enables someone to travle faster then light, has something to do with bending space and using that as propultion

So we could find out that our understanding is somewhat flawed.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

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