Existence of God

Hmm... you haven't judged him, yes. But who judges? God? Jesus? Someone else?------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."[This message has been edited by Rei, 10-14-2003]

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God judges, according to the scripture.

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John 5:22: "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son."John 5:27: "And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man."2. Corinthians 5:10: "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ."------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

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countless individuals - well educated and intelligent

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... believed that the world was flat, and the sun revolved around it. A few speculated that the world was round and that the sun revolved around it, but were widely mocked.... believed that fire was due to a substance called "phlogiston" which existed in many forms of matter, and escaped into air. The reason that fire burned out in a closed container was that air became saturated with phlogiston. Oxygen burned well because it was "dephlogisticated".... believed that stars were mounted in a "firmament" which hung over the earth. Belief in a sea around the world, and depending on the region, one underneath it, was also quite common. The moon was another light, like the sun. The sun was a ball of fire.... believed that bloodletting was an effective cure.... believed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction right before we invaded. (etc)------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."[This message has been edited by Rei, 10-15-2003]

By the way, Joralex - please, answer this simple 10-question quiz about Ezra and Nehmiah (Socratic method ):1) 743 people returned from captivity in Babylon from Kephirath, Beeroth, and what other city, combined?2) Ezra 1:46, which temple servant, in addition to Hagab and Hanan, returned?3) What descendants of King Solomon returned from exile, along with Sotai, Peruda, Jaalah, Darkon, Giddel, Shephatiah, Hattil, Pokereth-hazzebaim, and Ami?4) Ezra 4:12 refers to Nebuchannezar as being from where?5) What are the dimensions of the temple that Cyrus ordered built?6) Ezra 8: Did Zattu's family return? How about Bani?7) Nehmiah 12 - Was Harim or Rehum a priest who returned? Ginnethon or Ginnethoi? Maluch or Malluchi? Shebaniah or Shecaniah? Meremoth or Merioth? Sallu or Salli? Was the family of Miniamin represented?8) Who is the son of Henadad: Binnui or Bavvai?9) Neh 6:2 - "at the villages at the plain of Ono" or "at Kephirim"?10) What about the 13 contradictions between Ezra 2 and Nehmiah 7?(I could easily make these two short books into 50 contradiction questions)Is this letter for letter, word for word accuracy? Seing as this is a (proportionally) recent text, what does this say about older texts? Seing as hebrew words, due to the lack of vowel marks, are easily morphed from one to another - what does this say about the *meaning* retention that gets portrayed during such a mistake? This chapter is just a book of figures for the most part. But what about a chapter of commandments, for example? What about the fact that in this book of figures, some names are added, some dissapear, etc?------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

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Rei, obviously Christ judges. You know what I meant.

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John 8:15: "Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man."John 12:47: "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

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Who do you think judges ? - make your mind up!

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Ah, you see, that's the problem. It's not my mind that needs to be made up - I'm just quoting from the bible. It's not a very illuminating learning tool on this subject, now is it?

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Indeed, like manner did Jesus not condemn the prostitute, what is your point

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"And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not". Then who is judging them for not believing in Christ? Isn't belief in Christ a prerequisite for heaven? God doesn't judge. Jesus doesn't judge. Who does?------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

So... that doesn't contradict "I judge no man." how?------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

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So, you are going to risk the destiny of YOUR eternal soul on some 'statistics', is that about the size of it?

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I hope you won't mind if I base MY eternal destiny on something quite a bit more substantial than this, thank you.

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You see, unlike you, I base my view of what is real in the world on evidence, rather than what I would like to be true. Crazy, isn't it?------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

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"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

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Isaac Newton, for example, is known to have spent a great deal of his life studying Scripture (his writings on theology exceed his writings in science/mathematics). Do you seriously believe that an intellect of his magnitude missed what most people easily pick up upon cursory reading?

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Issac Newton was also into the occult, and practiced scrying.

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My conclusion is more like this : given that the latter is ridiculous, then it is reasonable to assume that what you regard as a 'contradiction' was examined and resolved in his/her mind and to his/her intellectual satisfaction.

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Phlogiston, geocentricity, a flat earth, etc.

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I am an example of this - I've resolved (through study) many hundreds of (alleged) Bible discrepancies. I've arrived at the reasonable and supportable conclusion that there is no real substance to the allegations of Bible discrepancies.

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Ah. So who judges, again? And while we're at it, who incided David to conduct the first census?Also while we're at it, do you realize that the texts that compose the bible were voted on at several occasions? The Bible itself wasn't really fixed in stone until the arbitrary point where Constantine ordered 50 bibles created. It is an arbitrary composite. For example, how do you decide to accept the gospel according to Matthew, but not according to Thomas?------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

Kudos to Joralex, for answering a question! Now, let us pray, he will cease to dodge issues about the eye.Also, can you please explain what you feel this has to do with life? Am I correct in assuming that you think that DNA is "complex specified information"? If so, why do you feel that it is as such?------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

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I always answer - you just don't understand or don't like what you hear.
Sorry, I can't help that.

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So, where did you answer the probability question about sensor rhodopsins mutating into photorhodopsins?

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Consider a "simple" organism - an amoeba dubia. Would you happen to know the information content in this amoeba's genome?

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Yes. Zero. Biological systems don't have information. Isn't that the very point of contention here?

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Stated differently, a human has about 3.3 billion base pairs in its genome. How many base pairs does an amoeba dubia have?

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That's about as relevant as asking how many branching points there are in a particular snowflake, or how many sub-Mandelbrot sets there are in a given region and given resolution; base pairs aren't information, they're a way of representing a chemical formula. If the ability to chain more pieces to a chemical is information, then all plastics are filled with tons of information.

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Now, do you know of any living organism that does not have a very specific sequence of base pairs in its DNA, said sequence determining that organisms' natural characteristics?

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In the exact same way that the combination of the linkages in a particular plastic determine its natural characteristics.------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."