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Author Topic:   New theory about evolution between creationism and evolution.
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 316 of 433 (628098)
08-06-2011 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 314 by zi ko
08-06-2011 1:28 AM


Re: Re:Could Empathy as a type of information affect genome?
I really don't understand how you think that having to support your ideas with evidence and/or reasoned arguements is in any way strange.
Because you must, to post the posts that you do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 314 by zi ko, posted 08-06-2011 1:28 AM zi ko has not replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3641 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 317 of 433 (628157)
08-07-2011 4:50 AM
Reply to: Message 315 by Panda
08-06-2011 8:24 AM


Re: Re:Could Empathy as a type of information affect genome?
Zi Ko writes:
Do i have to prove it again that information affects genome? Others, as Shapiro ect had done it well.
Empathy is atype of information.
My telephone number is also a type of information.
Therefore my telephone number affects genomes.
That is illogical.
Lac of food (type of information) affects genome.
telefon numper is an is information and does not affect genome.
So information can affect genome?
The answer is: it depends on the type of information.

Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 315 by Panda, posted 08-06-2011 8:24 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 318 by Wounded King, posted 08-07-2011 6:11 AM zi ko has replied
 Message 319 by Panda, posted 08-07-2011 6:49 AM zi ko has not replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


(3)
Message 318 of 433 (628160)
08-07-2011 6:11 AM
Reply to: Message 317 by zi ko
08-07-2011 4:50 AM


So not all information is sufficient, how do we tell?
So information can affect genome?
The answer is: it depends on the type of information.
I made this very point to you previously and you blew it off as irrelevant because people could believe that any type of information could affect the genome. Similarly anyone could believe that telephone numbers can affect the genome.
So why should anyone accept your hypothesis on empathy affecting the genome over Panda's hypothesis that telephone numbers can? You later added the addendum that it was "in cases being essential to survival" but even then an argument could be made that a phone number is sometimes essential for survival. It might be avery weak argument but that only serves to strengthen the analogy with your position.
Your definition of random seems to be one wholly disconnected to how it is used in evolutionary biology, which explains quite a lot.
If you wanted to approach the question scientifically of course then the answer to determining whether empathy affects the genome or phone numbers do would be to look for evidence and come up with plausible mechanism. In the absence of that both hypotheses are equally plausible.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by zi ko, posted 08-07-2011 4:50 AM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 320 by zi ko, posted 08-11-2011 5:01 PM Wounded King has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 319 of 433 (628165)
08-07-2011 6:49 AM
Reply to: Message 317 by zi ko
08-07-2011 4:50 AM


Re: Re:Could Empathy as a type of information affect genome?
zi ko writes:
That is illogical.
Lac of food (type of information) affects genome.
telefon numper is an is information and does not affect genome.
So information can affect genome?
The answer is: it depends on the type of information.
My telephone number is a type of information. So, it must be accepted, it can act on genome at least in the same way as other information staff idoes.
Furthermore as it acts on the same senario and on the same part of genome over long periods of time, maby millions of years, i think has a more profound effect on genome.
My telephone number conception is applied to multicellular organisms, where Shapiro work stops.
Stop being just a follower and be a thinker.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by zi ko, posted 08-07-2011 4:50 AM zi ko has not replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3641 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 320 of 433 (628642)
08-11-2011 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 318 by Wounded King
08-07-2011 6:11 AM


Re: So not all information is sufficient, how do we tell?
Theoretically all types of information are capable of affecting genome. B ut in practice only information that is transferred by empathy, as it acts repeatedly over many generations,on the same senario and it has survival value, can act on genome. I am talking mainly about the lower animals with neural system, where empathetically trasferred information is burdened with strong distress and it has survival value.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 318 by Wounded King, posted 08-07-2011 6:11 AM Wounded King has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 321 by Panda, posted 08-11-2011 5:40 PM zi ko has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(2)
Message 321 of 433 (628645)
08-11-2011 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 320 by zi ko
08-11-2011 5:01 PM


Re: So not all information is sufficient, how do we tell?
zi ko writes:
Theoretically all types of information are capable of affecting genome.
Hmmm...
zi ko writes:
B ut in practice only information that is transferred by empathy
Nope. Not in practice.
This is still in the "Theoretically" stage, as you have admitted previously.
quote:
I have never said I have any evidence. In any case i am not qualified for this. and i don't believe it could ever be found.
You have no evidence - this means that there is no "But in practice...".
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 320 by zi ko, posted 08-11-2011 5:01 PM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 322 by zi ko, posted 08-12-2011 10:11 AM Panda has replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3641 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 322 of 433 (628694)
08-12-2011 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 321 by Panda
08-11-2011 5:40 PM


Re: So not all information is sufficient, how do we tell?
You have no evidence - this means that there is no "But in practice...".
It is all "according to my theory"
We have "empathy a hard wired function in brain' according to researchers. What is your explanation of the existance and use of such hard wired mechanism and function?

Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 321 by Panda, posted 08-11-2011 5:40 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 323 by Panda, posted 08-12-2011 11:26 AM zi ko has replied
 Message 324 by Taq, posted 08-12-2011 11:47 AM zi ko has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 323 of 433 (628715)
08-12-2011 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 322 by zi ko
08-12-2011 10:11 AM


Re: So not all information is sufficient, how do we tell?
zi ko writes:
It is all "according to my theory"
But that is not 'in practise'.
That is almost the opposite of 'in practise'.
quote:
B ut in practice only information that is transferred by empathy
That is a completely unsupported assertion.
That has not been shown to happen.
zi ko writes:
What is your explanation of the existance and use of such hard wired mechanism and function?
I am not making claims about empathy: YOU ARE.
YOU need to support YOUR claims.
My claim is:
quote:
My telephone number is a type of information. So, it must be accepted, it can act on genome at least in the same way as other information staff idoes.
...which has as much supporting evidence as your theory.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by zi ko, posted 08-12-2011 10:11 AM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 326 by zi ko, posted 08-13-2011 3:30 PM Panda has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 324 of 433 (628722)
08-12-2011 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 322 by zi ko
08-12-2011 10:11 AM


Re: So not all information is sufficient, how do we tell?
It is all "according to my theory"
You don't have a theory. You have a belief. There is a difference between the two.
quote:
We have "empathy a hard wired function in brain' according to researchers. What is your explanation of the existance and use of such hard wired mechanism and function?
The same as it is for every other animal. It has to do with brain development which is controlled by our DNA.
What your beliefs are missing is any evidence that empathy guides mutations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by zi ko, posted 08-12-2011 10:11 AM zi ko has not replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 325 of 433 (628756)
08-12-2011 2:38 PM


Must...not.....be.....drawn.....in.......

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3641 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 326 of 433 (628873)
08-13-2011 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 323 by Panda
08-12-2011 11:26 AM


Re: So not all information is sufficient, how do we tell?
zi ko writes:
What is your explanation of the existance and use of such hard wired mechanism and function?
I am not making claims about empathy: YOU ARE YOU need to support YOUR claims.
.
I am not asking you to prove or disprove empathy. I am asking to explain ,according to the current Theory, why evolution had given parts of brain to empathic information and not to your telephone number

Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 323 by Panda, posted 08-12-2011 11:26 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 327 by Larni, posted 08-13-2011 6:27 PM zi ko has not replied
 Message 328 by Panda, posted 08-13-2011 7:41 PM zi ko has not replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(1)
Message 327 of 433 (628884)
08-13-2011 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 326 by zi ko
08-13-2011 3:30 PM


Re: So not all information is sufficient, how do we tell?
Empathy is advantageous for social creatures. It is advantageous because it lets social creatures engage in more complex behaviour than colonial creatures.
That is all.
There, I said it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 326 by zi ko, posted 08-13-2011 3:30 PM zi ko has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 328 of 433 (628892)
08-13-2011 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 326 by zi ko
08-13-2011 3:30 PM


Re: So not all information is sufficient, how do we tell?
zi ko writes:
I am asking to explain ,according to the current Theory, why evolution had given parts of brain to empathic information and not to your telephone number
I have never said I have any evidence. In any case i am not qualified for this. and i don't believe it could ever be found.
Untill there will be any evidence that it doesn't happen ,any body can believe it could.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 326 by zi ko, posted 08-13-2011 3:30 PM zi ko has not replied

  
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3641 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 329 of 433 (628929)
08-14-2011 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 309 by Wounded King
08-04-2011 11:45 AM


Re: There are random mutations?
You seem to be essentially making a philosophical claim that the apparent randomness is not truly fundamentally random, but since your hypothesis does not include any criteria on which the two could be told apart it is entirely worthless in scientific terms. Many creationists and IDists have a similar approach claiming that the apparent randomness of mutations serves to mask subtle interventions to direct evolution by the Intelligent Designer/ God.
You are right. With no defining of randomness any conversation about it is meaningless.Anything it happens in the living or not living world it is directed by some type of information. This is my philosofical thesis. I can't see how this thesis can not solve the same and maybe more broblems the other view, as you say , can solve.There are semidirected or entirely "non directed" mutations, but all of them are directed to life.

Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by Wounded King, posted 08-04-2011 11:45 AM Wounded King has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 604 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 330 of 433 (645383)
12-26-2011 7:01 PM


New here
I could not find a topic for the welcome of new members, so I will post here. Evolution .vs. Creation is a debate that I am very interested in and is the reason I returned to college to earn a degree. I am YEC but not like any that I have found so far on this forum. I have a wide range of possible ages for the earth but they are no older than a million years and no younger than 150,000 years. I believe in a global "flood", but I do not restrict its activity to massive amounts of rainfall as we see the phenomena today. I believe the great "flood" coincided with the Late Heavy Bombardment, and that the great flood of noah coincides with that periods characteristic total coverage of water. I know that was 3.9 billion years ago measured radiometrically, but I believe it happened much later than that due to accelerated radioactive decay.

Replies to this message:
 Message 331 by jar, posted 12-26-2011 7:17 PM foreveryoung has replied
 Message 348 by Coyote, posted 12-27-2011 3:42 PM foreveryoung has replied

  
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