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Author Topic:   The Ultimate Question - Why is there something rather than nothing?
Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 191 of 366 (627754)
08-03-2011 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Black Cat
08-03-2011 8:47 PM


Black Cat writes:
Since Dr. Craig actually did claim he was quoting directly, can you please show me where that is?
Message 151
As Dr. A showed (in Message 161), Dr. Craig also acted as if he had quoted directly.
Any ambiguity you try to claim exists in Dr. Craig's opening sentence is removed by his actions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Black Cat, posted 08-03-2011 8:47 PM Black Cat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Black Cat, posted 08-03-2011 9:12 PM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 193 of 366 (627756)
08-03-2011 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Black Cat
08-03-2011 9:12 PM


Black Cat writes:
Again I'll ask, where did Dr. Craig actually claim he was quoting directly?
Ok - I'll spell it out...
.
I don't see any ambiguity in:
Dr. Craig writes:
On pages 157-8 of his book, Dawkins summarizes what he calls "the central argument of my book." It goes as follows:
It is Dr. Craig claiming that he is quoting Dawkins directly.
.
Only you see ambiguity in that sentence (Message 152):
Black Cat writes:
From the introductory sentence it doesn't seem clear whether his intention was to quote directly or to summarize.
.
But any ambiguity you try to claim exists in Dr. Craig's opening sentence is completely removed by his actions.
Dr. Craig acted as if he had quoted Dawkins directly.
(Some of these actions have been described by Dr. A in Message 161.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Black Cat, posted 08-03-2011 9:12 PM Black Cat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Black Cat, posted 08-03-2011 9:46 PM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 195 of 366 (627758)
08-03-2011 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by Black Cat
08-03-2011 9:46 PM


Round and round...
(Bolding is mine)
Black Cat writes:
No it's not. He cites Dawkins' work but he does not indicate that he intends to quote any part of Dawkins' book directly.
Black Cat writes:
From the introductory sentence it doesn't seem clear whether his intention was to quote directly or to summarize.
You seem to disagree with yourself.
{abe}
Black Cat writes:
For the third time I'll ask, where did Dr. Craig actually claim he was quoting directly?
For the third time, I'll answer:
Dr. Craig writes:
On pages 157-8 of his book, Dawkins summarizes what he calls "the central argument of my book." It goes as follows:
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Black Cat, posted 08-03-2011 9:46 PM Black Cat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Black Cat, posted 08-03-2011 10:07 PM Panda has replied
 Message 197 by Black Cat, posted 08-03-2011 10:12 PM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 198 of 366 (627761)
08-03-2011 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Black Cat
08-03-2011 10:07 PM


Re: Round and round...
Black Cat writes:
I can admit it doesn't seem clear what his intentions are.
then you cannot also say
Black Cat writes:
I also affirm that he does not indicate that he intends to quote directly.
You cannot both not know and know what his intentions are.
This is really very simple.
Black Cat writes:
So, for the fourth time I'll ask, where does Dr. Craig claim that he is quoting directly?
For the fourth time, I'll answer:
Dr. Craig writes:
On pages 157-8 of his book, Dawkins summarizes what he calls "the central argument of my book." It goes as follows:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Black Cat, posted 08-03-2011 10:07 PM Black Cat has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 199 of 366 (627762)
08-03-2011 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by Black Cat
08-03-2011 10:12 PM


Re: Round and round...
To answer your 2nd post:
Black Cat writes:
Where in that sentence does Dr. Craig claim that he is quoting directly?
Sentences are interpreted as a whole.
If you break them up or remove parts of them (as Dr. Craig did) they lose their intended meaning.
So, to answer your question:
Dr. Craig writes:
On pages 157-8 of his book, Dawkins summarizes what he calls "the central argument of my book." It goes as follows:
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Black Cat, posted 08-03-2011 10:12 PM Black Cat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by Black Cat, posted 08-03-2011 11:05 PM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 200 of 366 (627763)
08-03-2011 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by Black Cat
08-03-2011 10:12 PM


Re: Round and round...
Is your silence regarding the dishonesty described by Dr. A. (in Message 161) due to you not being able to defend it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Black Cat, posted 08-03-2011 10:12 PM Black Cat has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 203 of 366 (627776)
08-04-2011 5:43 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by Black Cat
08-03-2011 11:05 PM


Re: Round and round...
Black Cat writes:
I'm not asking you to break it up or to remove part of it.
Oh - ok.
I appear to have mis-understood your request.
Thanks for clarifying.
Black Cat writes:
Again I'll ask, where in the above sentence does Dr. Craig claim that he is quoting directly?
Here:
Dr. Craig writes:
On pages 157-8 of his book, Dawkins summarizes what he calls "the central argument of my book." It goes as follows:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Black Cat, posted 08-03-2011 11:05 PM Black Cat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 8:31 AM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 220 of 366 (627801)
08-04-2011 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by Black Cat
08-04-2011 8:31 AM


Re: Round and round...
Black Cat writes:
Where in this sentence does Dr. Craig claim to be quoting directly?
Here's my answer - again:
Dr. Craig writes:
On pages 157-8 of his book, Dawkins summarizes what he calls "the central argument of my book." It goes as follows:
Black Cat writes:
Remember quoting the whole sentence is not an answer to my question.
Why should I remember something that is not true?
"The ball is red."
Which part of that sentence identifies the ball as red?
"The"? No.
"Red"? No.
"The ball"? Nope.
"ball is"? Still nope.
"The ball is red."? Yes! Oh no - I quoted the whole sentence.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 8:31 AM Black Cat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 10:31 AM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 224 of 366 (627812)
08-04-2011 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 222 by Black Cat
08-04-2011 10:31 AM


Re: Round and round...
How does the above sentence provide support for your claim that Dr. Craig claimed to be quoting directly?
So...you couldn't answer the previous ball question, then?
Too difficult?
Here's another for you to try:
"The ball is maroon."
How does the above sentence provide support for the claim that the ball is red?
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 10:31 AM Black Cat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 10:55 AM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 226 of 366 (627816)
08-04-2011 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by Black Cat
08-04-2011 10:55 AM


Re: Round and round...
Black Cat writes:
I'm waiting for you to answer my question. Let me know when you're prepared to do so.
Your question is nonsensical.
I was hoping that you would have discovered that while attempting to answer my 2nd 'ball' question.
Edited by Panda, : typo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 10:55 AM Black Cat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 11:12 AM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 228 of 366 (627821)
08-04-2011 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Black Cat
08-04-2011 11:12 AM


Re: Round and round...
Black Cat writes:
It's nonsensical to ask how you draw support for your claim from a specific statement? It's not clearly evident from the sentence that he intended to quote directly. You claim it is. I'm asking you to explain your reasoning.
The reason that I think that his opening statement indicated that Dr. Craig was quoting directly is because that is what it says.
That is how English works.
You read individual words and you draw meaning from their combination and from their context.
The combination of words and the context in which they were used clearly indicated that Dr. Craig was quoting verbatim.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 11:12 AM Black Cat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 11:51 AM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 231 of 366 (627829)
08-04-2011 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by Black Cat
08-04-2011 11:51 AM


Re: Round and round...
Black Cat writes:
Yet you are unable to to show how.
So, you want me to explain how to read and comprehend written English?
Ok - if it's so easy: you try.
Explain how Dr. Craig's opening statement is not saying that he is quoting Dawkin's verbatim.
Show me how those words, used in that particular order and that specific context do not clearly indicate that Dr. Craig was quoting Dawkins directly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 11:51 AM Black Cat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 12:13 PM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 233 of 366 (627831)
08-04-2011 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by Black Cat
08-04-2011 12:13 PM


Re: Round and round...
Black Cat writes:
I can comprehend English well enough.
Not that well, else you would realise I was not commenting on your comprehension of English, but on the impossibility of the task you were demanding of me.
.
Let's have a look at your explanation of how Dr. Craig's opening statement is not saying that he is quoting Dawkin's verbatim.
Black Cat writes:
The sentence doesn't indicate that he intends to quote directly.
The sentence does indicate that he intends to quote directly.
Black Cat writes:
It doesn't include any lead in that would suggest he was quoting directly.
It does include a lead in that would suggest he was quoting directly.
Black Cat writes:
Such things as: Dawkins writes, As said by Dawkins, and so on.
It does have such things as: Dawkins writes, As said by Dawkins, and so on.
As I expected, you are unable to explain how Dr. Craig's opening statement is not saying that he is quoting Dawkin's verbatim.
I also noticed that you avoided all mention of context.
I suspect that context is not your strong point, judging by your opening sentence and by your general avoidance of the subject.
.
Black Cat writes:
Looks like you're on your own with the direct quoting nonsense.
That is a rather obvious argumentum ad populum.
*looks around and sees no-one supporting Black Cat*
Looks like you're on your own with the not direct quoting nonsense.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 12:13 PM Black Cat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 12:49 PM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 235 of 366 (627834)
08-04-2011 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Black Cat
08-04-2011 12:49 PM


Re: Round and round...
Black Cat writes:
How so?
Where?
Where?
Here:
Dr. Craig writes:
On pages 157-8 of his book, Dawkins summarizes what he calls "the central argument of my book." It goes as follows:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Black Cat, posted 08-04-2011 12:49 PM Black Cat has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 338 of 366 (630227)
08-23-2011 5:43 AM
Reply to: Message 337 by IamJoseph
08-23-2011 5:08 AM


IamJoseph writes:
A finite universe allows no pre-existing energy, forces, tools, elements or substances.
...or gods.

Always remember: Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by IamJoseph, posted 08-23-2011 5:08 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 339 by IamJoseph, posted 08-23-2011 6:02 AM Panda has not replied

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