Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9163 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,409 Year: 3,666/9,624 Month: 537/974 Week: 150/276 Day: 24/23 Hour: 4/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The problems of big bang theory. What are they?
Maartenn100
Member (Idle past 4613 days)
Posts: 39
From: Belgium Antwerp
Joined: 08-13-2011


Message 256 of 389 (630957)
08-29-2011 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by NoNukes
08-29-2011 10:31 AM


Re: No big bang??
yes, you are right. I don't know what the meaning could be with the model I have.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by NoNukes, posted 08-29-2011 10:31 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Portillo
Member (Idle past 4182 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 257 of 389 (630997)
08-29-2011 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by Pressie
08-29-2011 6:03 AM


I never said that every atheist believes that the universe is eternal. Many people do and by doing so they are going against all the scientific evidence pointing to the big bang.
Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.

And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by Pressie, posted 08-29-2011 6:03 AM Pressie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by Pressie, posted 08-30-2011 1:37 AM Portillo has replied

Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 258 of 389 (631030)
08-30-2011 1:37 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by Portillo
08-29-2011 7:46 PM


I never said that every atheist believes that the universe is eternal.
Very few atheists would even think of the Big Bang. Atheists are atheists because there is absolutely no evidence for any kind of god. That's it.
You still are confusing the words "atheism" and "science". They are two different things.
Many people do and by doing so they are going against all the scientific evidence pointing to the big bang.
If a person doesn't know what the Big Bang Theory actually is, is it their fault. Not the fault of science.
I, for example, find the physics and maths behind the Big Bang way to difficult to comprehend. I wouldn't have a clue whether or not the Big Bang Theory relates to "eternity" or "non-eternity" at all. My fault, not the fault of science.
There still is absolutely no objective evidence for any kind of god at all. None. Even if the whole Big Bang Theory somehow is wrong, there still is no objective evidence for any kind of god. Your logical fallacies (special pleading and straw-man arguments) would still be very bad arguments.
Edited by Pressie, : Fixed spelling mistakes and added a sentence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Portillo, posted 08-29-2011 7:46 PM Portillo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Portillo, posted 08-30-2011 3:23 AM Pressie has not replied

Portillo
Member (Idle past 4182 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 259 of 389 (631040)
08-30-2011 3:23 AM
Reply to: Message 258 by Pressie
08-30-2011 1:37 AM


I used the word atheist for lack of a better word. The point I was trying to make is that many people refuse to believe in the scientific evidence for the big bang because it doesnt fit in with their worldview.

And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Pressie, posted 08-30-2011 1:37 AM Pressie has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-30-2011 3:58 AM Portillo has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 260 of 389 (631046)
08-30-2011 3:58 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by Portillo
08-30-2011 3:23 AM


I used the word atheist for lack of a better word. The point I was trying to make is that many people refuse to believe in the scientific evidence for the big bang because it doesnt fit in with their worldview.
Yeah. They're called "creationists". This would be a much, much better word than "atheists", what with creationists not being atheists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Portillo, posted 08-30-2011 3:23 AM Portillo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Portillo, posted 08-30-2011 4:37 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Portillo
Member (Idle past 4182 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 261 of 389 (631051)
08-30-2011 4:37 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by Dr Adequate
08-30-2011 3:58 AM


The big bang actually fits with theism, since theists have long since believed that the universe had a beginning.
Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.

And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-30-2011 3:58 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-30-2011 4:45 AM Portillo has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 262 of 389 (631053)
08-30-2011 4:45 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by Portillo
08-30-2011 4:37 AM


The big bang actually fits with theism, since theists have long since believed that the universe had a beginning.
And yet the people who deny it are in fact by an overwhelming majority creationists.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Portillo, posted 08-30-2011 4:37 AM Portillo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by Maartenn100, posted 08-30-2011 5:16 AM Dr Adequate has not replied
 Message 265 by Portillo, posted 08-30-2011 9:05 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Maartenn100
Member (Idle past 4613 days)
Posts: 39
From: Belgium Antwerp
Joined: 08-13-2011


Message 263 of 389 (631057)
08-30-2011 5:16 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by Dr Adequate
08-30-2011 4:45 AM


The Big Bang is an 'interpretation' of the facts. It's a theory to explain the measured facts.
God is just a name, a word. That's all. There is no definition for it (or many different ones).
Thests can't see that there can be an eternel universe.
It's very illogic to think that there can be an eternal god, but not an eternal universe. Very strange thinking.
Edited by Maartenn100, : No reason given.
Edited by Maartenn100, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-30-2011 4:45 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by Maartenn100, posted 08-30-2011 6:23 AM Maartenn100 has not replied

Maartenn100
Member (Idle past 4613 days)
Posts: 39
From: Belgium Antwerp
Joined: 08-13-2011


Message 264 of 389 (631065)
08-30-2011 6:23 AM
Reply to: Message 263 by Maartenn100
08-30-2011 5:16 AM


In my theory I start with a whole (set of) different postulate(s):
Spacestretch is the gravitational equivalent of lengthcontraction of an object (= spacestretch for observer).
Because of a timedifference.
Or even better:
If spacestretch for the observer is involved, timedifference must be involved too. (and motion)
(lengtcontraction of object can also be seen as spacestretch for the observer)
It's the observer-triangle
When you see motion, you see timedifference and spacestretch.
When you see timedifference, you see motion ans spacestretch
When you see spacestretch, you see motion and timedifference
A second postulate:
your time ticks always normal for you.
your clock is the norm, the criterium for distortions elsewhere.
And
You ARE a clock.
So space, time and motion will change, given your postion, given your clock. (relativistically spoken).
That's relativity.
The curvature of spacetime from the universe as a whole
I know, it's a bit an abstract concept.
I talked about 'the curvature of the universe as a whole'.
This curvature can only be seen from a distance.
Can you see the curvature of spacetime caused by our galaxy?
No, not at all. Because you are a part of it.
So, distance make you see 'a whole' and its influence on other 'wholes'.
galaxies on other galaxies, clusters on clusters, local groups on eachother etc.
These are, what I call: emergent systems. Wholons.
These systems curve spacetime too, as whole 'objects'.
So, at a certain point, you will see the influence of the curvature of the universe as such a whole on the objects in it. That causes the perception of 'an expanding universe'. Spacestretch.
But, that's just a relativistic perception - given your position, given your clock.
Space does strange things because of this curvature. (motion and timedifference will be involved too)
So: it's not about the facts. It's about the interpretation of the facts. (the theory)
Edited by Maartenn100, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Maartenn100, posted 08-30-2011 5:16 AM Maartenn100 has not replied

Portillo
Member (Idle past 4182 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 265 of 389 (631178)
08-30-2011 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by Dr Adequate
08-30-2011 4:45 AM


There seems to be alot of people here who arent creationists and dont believe in the big bang.

And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-30-2011 4:45 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Panda, posted 08-30-2011 9:37 PM Portillo has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 266 of 389 (631184)
08-30-2011 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by Portillo
08-30-2011 9:05 PM


Portillo writes:
There seems to be alot of people here who arent creationists and dont believe in the big bang.
Who exactly are you referring to?

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Portillo, posted 08-30-2011 9:05 PM Portillo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Portillo, posted 08-30-2011 9:45 PM Panda has replied

Portillo
Member (Idle past 4182 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 267 of 389 (631185)
08-30-2011 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Panda
08-30-2011 9:37 PM


Just looking at previous pages it seems as though some people are not willing to accept that the big bang theory is scientific fact. Its a hypothesis but its backed up by solid scientific evidence.
Edited by Portillo, : No reason given.

And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Panda, posted 08-30-2011 9:37 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by Panda, posted 08-30-2011 11:29 PM Portillo has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3734 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 268 of 389 (631199)
08-30-2011 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by Portillo
08-30-2011 9:45 PM


Portillo writes:
Just looking at previous pages it seems as though some people are not willing to accept that the big bang theory is scientific fact.
That statement is very different to saying:
Portillo writes:
There seems to be alot of people here who arent creationists and dont believe in the big bang.
You have changed the word 'Alot' for 'Some' and have abandoned the 'non-creationist' aspect of your claim.
But your new statement is kinda self-evident.
If there weren't 'some' people that don't accept the BBT then this thread would be very short:
"The problems of big bang theory. What are they?" followed by silence.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Portillo, posted 08-30-2011 9:45 PM Portillo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Portillo, posted 08-31-2011 12:01 AM Panda has not replied

Portillo
Member (Idle past 4182 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 269 of 389 (631208)
08-31-2011 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by Panda
08-30-2011 11:29 PM


What I want to know is do people reject the big bang theory because the scientific evidence does not point towards it or because they dont agree with the view that the universe had a beginning.

And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Panda, posted 08-30-2011 11:29 PM Panda has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by bluescat48, posted 08-31-2011 12:35 AM Portillo has not replied
 Message 271 by Pressie, posted 08-31-2011 12:38 AM Portillo has replied
 Message 272 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-31-2011 12:54 AM Portillo has not replied
 Message 280 by Percy, posted 08-31-2011 10:00 AM Portillo has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4210 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 270 of 389 (631215)
08-31-2011 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 269 by Portillo
08-31-2011 12:01 AM


from what I can see, they reject it because it doesn't agree with their creation myths.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Portillo, posted 08-31-2011 12:01 AM Portillo has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024