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Author Topic:   What is the EVOLUTIONARY advantage of death?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 18 of 32 (62855)
10-25-2003 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by blitz77
10-25-2003 11:02 PM


Didn't his Nobel Acceptance speech go something like "They said it couldn't be done! Fools! I'll destroy them all!"

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 25 of 32 (63165)
10-28-2003 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by phil
10-28-2003 6:09 PM


Evolution is all about natural selection and beneficial mutations and ADAPTING the environment, correct? Well, knowing this, I would think that SOME animal would be able to adapt to its environment to the point where it could survive a little longer than all animals today.
Ok, sure. Suppose it did. What would be the survival advantage to its offspring? There has to be one for its longevity genes to spread throughout the population.
Evolution doesn't optimize. I don't have to outrun the bear. I just have to outrun you.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 29 of 32 (63190)
10-28-2003 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by phil
10-28-2003 9:51 PM


but if a mutation allowed an animal to extend its "prime" by several years, I don't see why this feature would disappear (except for overpopulation).
Well, that's it, for one thing. You have to assume that every population is at K (maximum capacity) or, if it isn't, eventually will be. Ergo there's always competition for resources between individuals.
How does an animal with greater longetivity provide a survival advantage to its mature offspring? Especially if it's competing with resources with its offspring?
You've mentioned a few organisms with great longetivity, like trees, for instance. Trees can afford to live so long because they have a lot of mechanisms for making sure they don't compete with their offspring for soil and light. Some, like fruiting trees, get other animals to cart their seeds far away. Others, like some pines, have seeds that won't sprout until there's a good chance the parent is already dead through forest fires.
Sea turtles swim for miles and miles to lay eggs, and abandon them.
There's no selection pressure for longetivity. In fact in the absence of a really good spreading mechanism, longetivity of the parent can select against their offspring, because they compete for resources.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 31 of 32 (63206)
10-28-2003 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by phil
10-28-2003 10:05 PM


No prob. That was your misapprehension, I think - organisms don't adapt to their environment through magic. They adapt in the ways that leave more of their offspring alive.

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