Logical Question: | willing | not[willing] |able | not[able] |

Enjoy.Im sure Im missing much of what you are implying in these exercises, so perhaps you could simplifyIs you implication that there is another word or category besides those I have suggestedis there something else that could be classified as a different area completelyplease simlify and specifyI was not aware this thread had started Once Joey on 'Fullhouse' was presented with a very complicated scenario , it started out as "Bill was on a train traveling at 120 mph, etc etc etc. After much diliberation and explaining the problem Joey said in response to the querest"You say this guys name was Bill"?Dawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Yes true, this is my position. Actually only two but I understand your meaning concerning the opposites

I dont see why the definition is to broad. Doesnt the definition have to include the situation and parties that are involved. If the goal is to reach or make contact with the other party, whether thier requesting it or that is you specific goal, Able or Unable would include all the aspectsOn the other hand, if my goal is to get to the lake no later than 9:00 am, and I arrive at 9:32, I was unable to accomplish my goal or task, correct. Here is a situation where only my purposes were involved and I failedEven in your limited definitions, you are only still Able or unable to accomplish your task, you have not described another term or areaEven if you are willing and able and make no contact, your were still just willing and able. I see no other category even stillAm I missing somethingDawn Bertot

Is there something here besides willing and able, Im not seeing it. Even if no contact was made, is there something different than your ability to be willing and ableYou were Willing not ableYou were Willing and ableYou were Able not willingI see nothing else, even from only your limited perspectiveAm I missing somethingDawn Bertot

I am fine with these definitions, all I need is another word that does not include Willing or Able or a combination of the two,or the opposites obviously. Is there another wordEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

In this instance the situations would not change the meanings of these terms. But the scenarios would of course only invlove one person doing a single thing, or the terms would involve a person attempting to have involvement with another person or persons.So as you can see, I am not attempting to change meanings, but scenarios in life would naturally involve how and when those definitions would apply. Woudnt you agree? Ill ask you the same question I asked BT. Wouldnt, goals, response and communication, be what make Willing and Able possible? IOWs, these would be mechanisms or qualifications that are sub-points, to the greater poins of willing and able, they are not something different, but a intrical part to the accomplishment of those limited realitiesAt one point someone mentioned ambevalence. Unfortunately, this is a mental exiercise and until it manifests in physical action, it does not apply AgreedEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

If "no response was recieved" then they were unable to answer the hail, because they made no contact with the enterprise, knowing a response was requiredIll try this again, pay close attention. If we look at it from the second ships point of view, they were Willing and Able, the is no other category. IOWs no other word, correct?If we look at it from Spocks position the only terms that will apply are willing and able, Unable or unwilling, no other area to consider, nor any other optionsAre you starting to see the point, it doesnt matter the position or perspective only willing or able will apply. If you think I am wrong provide me a scenario where there will be another concept besides these termsDawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

RAZD writesPanda writes: There all possible, but dont involve another term or concept provided by english or reality, that is different than Willing or Able. If you think I am wrong provide any scenario where there would be something differentLets see if RAZD can add anything to the mixDawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

I think you are still missing the point. My concern is not whether they were willling or able to respond, whether they could or didnt.The question BT is whether you can find another term Besides Wiiling or able that would define thier actions. Thats from thier perspective and tasksNow look at ti from Spocks point of view, if no contact was recieved by the enterprise, then it does not matter whether the 2nd ship was willing or able, they were not ABLE to contact the shipAbility in this instance does not mean they made an attempt, it means they failed and were unable to reach them to make communicationThis sounds all petty but does and will have application when considering the only possibilites as to the cause of existenceEven Unaware by the second ship will translate into unable by both parties. The enterprise is Unable to cantact a ship they are attempting to contact, because they have not or cannot recieve a transmission set in thier directionThe second ship is unable to recieve the transmission, even if they are unaware, therfore unable to make a responseDawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Because you are so intent on making a point, your missing a simple one No Butterfly, the tasks is not responding, the task is FOR YOU to find another word that is different than from willing or able, whether its me asking you to do it or its a scenario in a moviePay close attention to this one more timeIF, they were willing and able to respond (did respond) and made no contact with the ship, they were still willing and able. But now pay even closer attention. Give me another word that is different than willing or able or another concept that is not described by thier actions.Response is what made them willing and able, its a part of and combination of williing and able, its not something differentMr spocks wishes are not the point. What they did, is not the point. Whether they responded is not the point. Whether they were willing and able is not the point. Whether they were unwilling and unable, is not the point. Whether they were Willing but unable, is not the point, Whether they were able but not willing is not the pointWhether they were successful or unsucessful is not the pointThe point is that there is no other words to decribe thier actions besides willing and ableAny actions by anyone anywhere for any reason will involve ONLY Willing and Able.Now do you see what I am saying? Are you smelling the coffee yet?Mr Spock, the writer, the script, whoever, whatever accurately, described a logical proposition, the likes of which is irrefutable and irresisitible in its conclusionThere are no other categories or options. If there is, provide the wordDawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

You kidding right, no one is really that simplistic. Ill let you use that massive brain power of yours to figure this one outDawn Bertot

response is a part of ones actions that detemines whether a person is able or willing, not something differentI thought Panda would be smart enough to figure that out and it is why I did not bother with its definition. It is also why I am fine with its definition. It does not alter or change my contention concerning willing and ableDawn Bertot

response is not the issueYour problem here is a simple one and it comes down to subjectivity. Apathy is not an action. The question is were they willing and able to toss the coin. The answer is yes.it does not matter the subjective actions the coin might produce, because they cannot make a subjective decision if they dont toss the coin. the question is were they willing and able to toss the coinActions and reality will only make the words valid. Doing nothing in no situation for no reason, does not promote willing and ableAt bare minimum, apathy cannot be offered as an alternate term to describe something differnt than willing or able. The closest it comes is to unwilling, but nothing more or less than unwilling. Wouldnt you agreeits odd, you as a logician, would disagree with such a simple propositionDawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Ok this is a very Odd statement at best. Your saying I need to demonstrate more than what is or what I am claiming are the only alternatives in any situationReality is telling you there are no other options, I have provided the only options, shouldnt it be your responsibility to provide more than what I am claimingI cant demonstrate what I KNOW doesnt exist. I cant provide you with a round square or a square circle, unless to manufacture a word like squircle, whis not a real thingDawn Bertot

You do understand that Unwilling and Willing are essentially the samething, correct? unwilling is the opposite end of willing, just on the other end.same for Unable.If you wish to make them the something different in your mind, then so be it. but that is the only place they will be two different thingsThe opposite side of an orange is still the same orange, correct, just on the opposite sideDawn Bertot