Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Ultimate Question - Why is there something rather than nothing?
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 202 of 366 (627771)
08-04-2011 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by Black Cat
08-03-2011 11:05 PM


Re: Round and round...
Again I'll ask, where in the above sentence does Dr. Craig claim that he is quoting directly?
It's very clearly implied by what he says about it. He treats it as though it was Dawkins' summary, not his, as I have shown.
You could in principle put this to an empirical test. You could show the article to someone and ask them some comprehension-test style questions. Include the question: "How did Dawkins summarize his argument?" If they answer: "I have absolutely no idea", then W.L.C. did not deceive them.
How do you think this would turn out?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Black Cat, posted 08-03-2011 11:05 PM Black Cat has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 295 of 366 (628648)
08-11-2011 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by kowalskil
08-11-2011 4:49 PM


What you are probably asking is "does God exist or not."
I have made it exceedingly clear that that is not in any way what I am asking.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by kowalskil, posted 08-11-2011 4:49 PM kowalskil has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 304 of 366 (629455)
08-17-2011 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by bluegenes
08-17-2011 3:33 AM


Re: Creating absolute nothingness/interesting angle on the O.P. question.
Grnbaum attacks the "nothing" alternative. Some of the things he says are similar to some things I've been saying. He sees "nothingness" as being largely a religious invention, and claims that people have it the wrong way round. The Christian philosophers who ask the question tend to express amazement that there's something, and to regard "nothing" as simpler and more natural. He argues the case that there's no logical reason or empirical reason to perceive nothing as "natural".
Well, this is true so far as it goes.
Certainly nothingness can't be necessary, because there is in fact something.
The question of whether it is more probable than something seems remarkably ill-conceived. What would that even mean? --- it suggests a state in which there was neither something nor nothing and one of them was somehow selected.
But unless something can be shown to be necessary my original question still stands.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by bluegenes, posted 08-17-2011 3:33 AM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by bluegenes, posted 08-19-2011 2:46 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 365 of 366 (633896)
09-17-2011 1:27 AM


Well, my summary for what its worth.
Despite some gallant attempts, no-one has in my view deduced the existence of something a priori.
I agree with those who say that nothing should not be considered as intrinsically more probable than something.
I still think that the question is ill-posed (yes, I know it's my question). The problem, as I said in the OP, is that "Why?" suggests that we are asking for an antecedent cause, which would be a thing, which would be the wrong question: like asking "Who makes it rain?", which wrongly implies that it's a person; or "How tall is jealousy?", implying that it has dimensions.
But if we can't ask "why?" then we seem in need of a whole new interrogative, such as "whub?" At which point we cease to even have the impression that we understand the question, and can be certain that we won't understand the answer.
Q: "Whub is there something rather than nothing?"
A: "Fubble."
And that would seem to be the last word on the matter.

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024