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Author Topic:   Potential Evidence for a Global Flood
Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 243 of 320 (633405)
09-13-2011 10:38 PM


All one need imagine is segregated flows within a tremendous chaos of moving water. This probably from the moving continents going on during stages in the flood year.
I want to find different layered strata.
First this layer and then another from hundreds of miles away and then some volcanic layer and so on.
One can imagine whole provinces being lifted up and moved intack some distance and placed over a layer.
Such power could hold in place, here and there, standing trees .
The strata of these things looks just like what it looks.
A great power moving and placing segregated earthforms on top of each other.
Why not?
why invoke unlikely endless events doing unlikely things.
Especially when we have a witness.

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by Taq, posted 09-13-2011 11:16 PM Robert Byers has replied
 Message 245 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-13-2011 11:36 PM Robert Byers has replied
 Message 251 by Coragyps, posted 09-14-2011 9:36 AM Robert Byers has replied

Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 246 of 320 (633428)
09-14-2011 1:28 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by Taq
09-13-2011 11:16 PM


In each case it works.
If it happened all at once then all one needs to see is segregated flows etc.
You have to admit its segregation that is shown.
Then you say annual events.
Yet clay need not be annual if there is mechanism to segregate it.
Its unlikely these lakes , even, were from annual events.
It was just a event or few that created all the segregated layers.
Just because annual events can make these layers is not evidence this is what happened in these deposits.
nor is it prrof that thats all that can happen.
All one finds is layers laid by a layering process.
A chaotic flow structure could do this too.
In the great mega floods of recent Iceland they only lately discovered that PULSES of water could make layers of sediment in a quick single event.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Taq, posted 09-13-2011 11:16 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by Taq, posted 09-14-2011 11:08 AM Robert Byers has replied
 Message 308 by ICANT, posted 09-28-2011 10:23 AM Robert Byers has not replied

Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 247 of 320 (633432)
09-14-2011 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by Dr Adequate
09-13-2011 11:36 PM


The geologist is to discover the truth.
Just figuring things out by present processes only works if non present processes are indeed impossible.
Other processes can and would exist in special conditions.
Only if its impossible for special conditions to produce these results can there be confidence in the conclusions from ordinary observed processes.
Since its all about layers then its all about layers being laid.
Increase the layering mechanism and one has a way to account for instant many layered sediment structures.
A line of reasoning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-13-2011 11:36 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by saab93f, posted 09-14-2011 2:32 AM Robert Byers has not replied
 Message 249 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-14-2011 3:13 AM Robert Byers has replied
 Message 250 by Pressie, posted 09-14-2011 7:50 AM Robert Byers has replied

Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 261 of 320 (633905)
09-17-2011 3:17 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by Dr Adequate
09-14-2011 3:13 AM


Yes there are present processes of coarse.
I mean that massive water processes are not now observable.
Not this big or close and so what water can do must be a option in these origins.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-14-2011 3:13 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 262 of 320 (633906)
09-17-2011 3:22 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by Pressie
09-14-2011 7:50 AM


The evidence of the rocks is only evidence they were created by processes. then its interpretation of what these processes were.
If massive water was working then there is no reason to see anything of the past as from slow minor processes of a quiet world today.
in fact this is a common theme in ice age mega flood studies.
They always , not creationists, are overthrowing old slow interpretations of geomorphology in regards to glacial covered areas.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by tsig, posted 09-24-2011 3:11 PM Robert Byers has not replied

Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 263 of 320 (633907)
09-17-2011 3:24 AM
Reply to: Message 251 by Coragyps
09-14-2011 9:36 AM


The world was breaking up and so easily whole chunks of areas, like great states etc, would slide or be deposited on earlier layers that were moved about.
like in ice river break ups great slabs of ice get tossed on top of other slabs of ice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Coragyps, posted 09-14-2011 9:36 AM Coragyps has not replied

Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 267 of 320 (633920)
09-17-2011 4:48 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by Taq
09-14-2011 11:08 AM


The newly observed pulses in Iceland make a point. That water can instantly segregate sediment .
The great flood can be imagined to have numerous things going on at the same time.
The chaos here can have quiet areas there and then reverse it.
Fine sediment could , as a option, be simply squeezed out of less fine sediment it came from in some case in the flood.
I'm just saying all these details can be explained by the workings of water.
In fact your fine sediment had to be buried to be preserved.
This itself evidence of a single episode for the whole thing.
It just takes imagination to figure out all these details.
Yet the finale thing is that the earth shows to have been covered in water to account for the layers of sedimentary rock in great depths below the k-t line.
All deposited at once.
Modern processes are just simple quiet things.
Yet increase the power of processes and one can see the origin of great earth results and diversity thereof.
why not?
Then there is the witness of scripture.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Taq, posted 09-14-2011 11:08 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Percy, posted 09-17-2011 9:32 AM Robert Byers has replied
 Message 276 by Pressie, posted 09-18-2011 1:45 PM Robert Byers has not replied
 Message 277 by Coyote, posted 09-18-2011 1:53 PM Robert Byers has replied
 Message 285 by Taq, posted 09-21-2011 11:20 AM Robert Byers has replied

Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 280 of 320 (634225)
09-20-2011 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 269 by Percy
09-17-2011 9:32 AM


You make my case.
The flood water did not move the continents. That was from the breaking up of the continents and so part of structural earth issues.
Yet the great chaos one can imagine, soooo much more then the Japan matter, would include thowing great slabs of land about intack and busting them into pieces and so despositing them everywhere and so in sections of the flooding waters there could be great eddys of quiet water where layering of even fine sediment could be done.
further layering of fine or any kind of sediment could be from just other sediment forces. the water just a bigger agent.
All that goes on in layering issues is a segregation of sediment.
in our quiet days its just water that segregates. yet any force could do this. Wing even a little bit does in the desert.
Whatever force did the segregating it is simply easily an option to see a massive force of water with every kind of convulsion leading to every kind of result that water moves in .
Fast here and slow there.
Then everything covered and so today we talk about it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Percy, posted 09-17-2011 9:32 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by Percy, posted 09-20-2011 8:56 AM Robert Byers has not replied

Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 281 of 320 (634226)
09-20-2011 2:41 AM
Reply to: Message 277 by Coyote
09-18-2011 1:53 PM


Re: Evidence?
The data is that some 75% of the dry land was once covered by water. the rest is areas that are volcanic and so either knocked the sedimentary rock off or kept off the sediment.
Creationism sees this as from the biblical flood year.
Its just what we want to find.
The k-t line this YEC sees as the flood line or year. all belove deposited by the flood year.
Just segegated flows/events in the flood year need be invoked.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Coyote, posted 09-18-2011 1:53 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-20-2011 2:59 AM Robert Byers has not replied
 Message 284 by Coyote, posted 09-20-2011 11:33 AM Robert Byers has replied

Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 287 of 320 (634478)
09-22-2011 1:51 AM
Reply to: Message 284 by Coyote
09-20-2011 11:33 AM


Re: Evidence?
I'm saying the k-t boundary is the flood boundary.
so millions of years is rejected.
The evidence is that there are accumulations of sediment. Yes layers are there but no reason to see them as otherwise then laid all together.
Just segregated flows within a bigger event.
Above the line is indeed a different fauna/flora fossil assemblage.
This because it was laid in a later event under like processes but not the great flood.
it all works.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Coyote, posted 09-20-2011 11:33 AM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by Pressie, posted 09-22-2011 3:59 AM Robert Byers has not replied
 Message 291 by Coyote, posted 09-22-2011 9:36 AM Robert Byers has not replied

Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 288 of 320 (634479)
09-22-2011 1:56 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by Taq
09-21-2011 11:20 AM


Potential evidence is exactly what is found in the field.
Results in real life.
Then interpretations of how this fits in a biblical framework.
The evidence for great moving water is great accumulations of sediment.
The sediment must be admitted by all to be there.
Then it simply means to say the sediment was squeezed by the very great weight that previously laid it and into stone.
Its potential evidence of a great flood moving about where one finds great unnatural accumulations of dirt.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Taq, posted 09-21-2011 11:20 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 290 by Pressie, posted 09-22-2011 4:46 AM Robert Byers has not replied
 Message 292 by Taq, posted 09-22-2011 11:24 AM Robert Byers has not replied
 Message 294 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-23-2011 4:25 AM Robert Byers has not replied

Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 300 of 320 (635131)
09-27-2011 3:53 AM


Everyone.
I recently reread my notes.
A great book by geologists called the "mountains of Saint Francis" mentioned how turbidity currents explained graded bedforms.
They discovered that the whole sediment load was thrown together in water and then it settled into grades of sediment.
they called it a revolution but really just a correction of slow geology presumptions.
Its come up here HOW can there be segregated strata.
well just as this case shows sediment can sort itself in special events so likewise these special events easily and very likely created segregated flows that laid in a short period all strata below the k-t line.
The potential evidence for a global flood is the great strata columns and general covering of earth by sedimentary rock.
What more could a creationist ask for?
The only thing to add is that the sediment was turned into rock by the great weight of other mechanisms during the flood.
The flood evidence is the very data used to, incorrectly, make all these stories of the history of earth.
There is no reason not to see and imagine that layered rock strata are from the same event.
There is every reason to think so from creationist presumptions of a witness.
its more then potential . its actual and very persuasive to creationists and audiences that can be reached.
Includes in it any life caught up in the flows and so likewise turned to stone.
Fossils.
Fossils all from the same great event killing them.

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by Pressie, posted 09-27-2011 6:07 AM Robert Byers has not replied
 Message 303 by Percy, posted 09-27-2011 7:33 AM Robert Byers has not replied
 Message 304 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-27-2011 1:27 PM Robert Byers has not replied
 Message 305 by Taq, posted 09-27-2011 3:48 PM Robert Byers has not replied

Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 306 of 320 (635227)
09-28-2011 5:29 AM


I'm not sure if this thread is continuing.
So i will continue conservatively.
Everyone seemed to say the same thing.
The case here of turbidity sediments is a great case for re interpretation of data.
they thought first one thing and then a revolution took place. A correction so very important.
They no longer thought slow layering accounted for segregated layers in these rock columns.
instead a confused sediment group was thrown aggressively into deep water and instantly sorted itself into many layered or segregated sediments.
this is a example and perhaps sometimes the actual mechanism for much of what is found in the rock strata .
A single chaotic flood event throws sediment into deep water and mechanism separates it and deceives that it was from slow annual events.
The example alone here is how imagination and better research/thinking figures out there is no need to see strata of rock as demanding each layer from a different age.
Segregated flows can do the same thing and then, like the turbidites turn all to stone.
The example of the turbidite by the way i see as a post flood event.
below and above the k-t line the same processes worked in special episodes.
The turbidite example is a modern process but just rare or never happens now. The special case of massive water moving about is today unknown.
The discovery of turbidity events is actually an embarrassment to geology. They had no reason to guess how these sediment layers were created. Once a few thought harder it was figured out although they had to change earth events.
The author did get excited that old ideas can be overthrown.
Right!

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by Pressie, posted 09-28-2011 9:36 AM Robert Byers has not replied

Robert Byers
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 640
From: Toronto,canada
Joined: 02-06-2004


Message 310 of 320 (635412)
09-29-2011 5:52 AM


Summery
There is potential evidence for the flood by the very thing found in the field.
Massive sedimentary rock stratas over most of the dry land today.
This hints alone at water deposition being massive in the past.
This is what should be expected if the great flood was true.
Segregated strata is only segregated flows as it would be.then the same force of water would squeeze everything into stone.
The bible says there was a flood and so Christianity , the great faith, says so and on earth is great accumulation of sediment moved/deposited by water including the creatures caught up in at the time.
This is at least potential evidence and plain damn good evidence.

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