Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,840 Year: 4,097/9,624 Month: 968/974 Week: 295/286 Day: 16/40 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Tea Party Questions
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 161 of 200 (636246)
10-04-2011 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Rahvin
09-30-2011 2:46 PM


Re: Total lack of a plan.
Rahvin writes:
Somehow Canada and the rest of the First World manage to be profitable markets for the pharmaceutical industry while simultaneously guaranteeing coverage, usually single-payer, to every citizen. If I lived a little farther north, past an arbitrary line, I wouldn't even need to pay a copay for a doctor's appointment or prescription medication...and yet the Canadian market is still profitable enough that pharmaceutical companies still sell them drugs.
Hi Rahvin
Just a couple of thoughts on this as a life long Canadian. Our medical system isn't a utopia. If I had to choose between our system and yours I would choose ours but I think you would actually do better looking at some of the European models.
One correction is that prescription drugs aren't covered in most cases by our Medicare system. We need private coverage for that. In addition there are fairly lengthy wait times to see specialists or to get surgery.
On balance though, eventually everyone does get health care but it isn't equal. I'm retired so I don't get the same quality of care that I would have gotten previously. If I had a health issue prior to retirement it cost the company money. The company doctor would make a phone call and I would get an appointment right away. Can't do that now. Prison inmates get more rapid attention than I do. So do Members of parliament, the military and those who have friends in high places do as well.
I think that there is probably a happy medium between our two countries. Canada has to deal with our health costs to which are a huge percentage of government expenditures and the costs are rapidly increasing without even taking into account the aging of the population which is going to have a massive impact.
So yes, I prefer our system but it isn't all that you seem to think it is.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Rahvin, posted 09-30-2011 2:46 PM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Taq, posted 10-05-2011 11:24 AM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 165 of 200 (636284)
10-05-2011 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by Taq
10-05-2011 11:24 AM


Re: Total lack of a plan.
It is generally considered by virtually all parties that as things stand the costs aren't sustainable for the long term, but politically dealing with the problem is a quagmire.
I know our costs are lower than yours which but one side effect of the government controlling the costs is that we lose doctors and nurses to the US where they can make more money and we have a doctor shortage in this country.
I think that one mistake we make is in the delivery system is nearly all public. I do like the idea that the insurance aspect of it is public so that all are covered but I think it is a mistake that the delivery is public as well. I find it difficult to accept in a democratic system that with a few exceptions private delivery isn't allowed. What happens a lot is that people with money go down to your country to obtain health care.
As said I prefer our system but the status quo isn't an option long term in either of our countries.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Taq, posted 10-05-2011 11:24 AM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Theodoric, posted 10-05-2011 3:40 PM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 183 of 200 (636329)
10-05-2011 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Theodoric
10-05-2011 3:40 PM


Re: Canadians to Us for Healthcare? Not many.
Canadians don't just go to border states. I have a friend who flew to California for treatment.
It is true that doctors have their own clinics but the hospitals that they work out of are, with just a handful of exceptions, publicly owned. I think that the biggest saving that our doctors have is they don't have to pay the prohibitive costs of legal protection. We just don't sue our doctors very much in this country.
As I say are system works pretty well except long waiting lists are a problem. The concern is that the status quo isn't sustainable. I definitely agree with having one health insurer provider and I'm fine with it being the state.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Theodoric, posted 10-05-2011 3:40 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Theodoric, posted 10-05-2011 6:19 PM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 185 of 200 (636334)
10-05-2011 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Theodoric
10-05-2011 6:19 PM


Re: Canadians to Us for Healthcare? Not many.
She went because of her MS. I had another friend who took his daughter to the Mayo clinic for migranes. The people who use the US system are generally those who are going to fly to whewre they want to go for treatment as opposed to the closest state.
I don't know how wide spread it is but it isn't uncommon. I recently heard a US company advertising for US healthcare insurance for Canadians.
I also think that there is a perception that the quality of care that they pay for in the US is superior to what they get here. Frankly I'm not sure that is the case.
I do know that I was in Mexico with my grandson when he badly separated his shoulder. I think the care he got in PLaya Del Carmen was better than what he would have received here. Once the funding was cleared up, they had great facilities and very competent doctors and nurses.
The Canadian system is great but it's certainly not without its problems.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Theodoric, posted 10-05-2011 6:19 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by Theodoric, posted 10-05-2011 7:01 PM GDR has not replied
 Message 187 by Taq, posted 10-05-2011 7:11 PM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 188 of 200 (636338)
10-05-2011 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Taq
10-05-2011 7:11 PM


Re: Canadians to Us for Healthcare? Not many.
Taq writes:
The US healthcare system is pretty good if you can afford the top doctors. Of that I have no doubt. The hang up is "if you can afford it". To use an analogy, if every home in the US was a multi-million dollar mansion could we still claim that the US hase the best housing even if 90% of the population was homeless? I wouldn't think so.
It is obviously the Canadians that can afford it who go there. I think the last comment is a fair analogy.
Taq writes:
To get back to the topic, how bad does the healthcare system have to get before people fight back? How many more people have to die prematurely because they can not afford healthcare, or choose to die instead of bankrupting their families. When politicians claim that we can't afford universal health coverage it really pisses me off. How do they think we are paying for it right now? Do they think that everyone is getting free care or something? Or are they admitting that healthcare is so overpriced that our country could not afford to make healthcare available to everyone, universal or not? Either way, it is a very sad state of affairs.
Frankly I know very little about the US health care system. One question I would have though is how do you go about implementing a universal health plan. It would require putting many legitimate companies out of business which doesn't seem exactly fair either. That isn't to say that it shouldn't be done but it does seem to me that there would have to be some way of treating the current private insurers fairly.
Taq writes:
There is some silver lining though. Whenever a conservative says that we can not do universal health coverage remind them that the French are able to do it. That usually ruffles their feathers.
Brilliant.
I pretty much consider myself a conservative here but that probably puts me closer to US Democrats than Republicans. I do think though that the US should look at the European models which have a mix of private and public which seems to provide care for all without the high costs that are associated with our system. (I do recognize that your costs are higher than ours but I believe that would be largely due to legal insurance and the inefficiencies of having so many health insurers.
I really want to point out that I am no expert in this field and it is just my perception of things as your run-of-the-mill Canadian.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Taq, posted 10-05-2011 7:11 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by Taq, posted 10-06-2011 6:12 PM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 192 of 200 (636471)
10-06-2011 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by Taq
10-06-2011 6:12 PM


Re: Canadians to Us for Healthcare? Not many.
Taq writes:
If it were up to me, I would expand on the current programs. For example, the VA system treats veterans, but only if they are low income. I say that we get rid of the income requirements and open up the VA system to all vets for life. The VA system could serve as a model for broader reforms, such as VA run medical schools that do not charge tuition but require a specific term of service after graduation. This would allow the VA to pay out less for salaries while also lowering the debt burden for medical students.
That makes sense as it phases a program in which hopefully would allow the health insurance companies time to adjust.
One suggestion I would have is to revamp the laws around the whole system. Doctor's aren’t perfect and if it can be shown that a doctor did his/her best with no egregious mistakes then the case should be thrown out. It is my understanding that legal insurance is a huge drain on the system.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Taq, posted 10-06-2011 6:12 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by crashfrog, posted 10-06-2011 7:03 PM GDR has not replied
 Message 195 by Rahvin, posted 10-06-2011 7:07 PM GDR has replied
 Message 196 by Taq, posted 10-06-2011 7:22 PM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 197 of 200 (636482)
10-06-2011 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Rahvin
10-06-2011 7:07 PM


Re: Canadians to Us for Healthcare? Not many.
Hi Rahvin
All good points. I will again point out that in Canada we require our own insurance to pay for presription drugs. I am certainly a fan of our publicly funded health insurance plan but not a big fan of our publicly owned and run hospital monopoly. I would like to see a mix of private and public delivery.
Everone in Canada gets a health card which is all anyone requires to get treatment at our hospitals or even private clinics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Rahvin, posted 10-06-2011 7:07 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Rahvin, posted 10-06-2011 7:49 PM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 199 of 200 (636486)
10-06-2011 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Rahvin
10-06-2011 7:49 PM


Re: Canadians to Us for Healthcare? Not many.
Rahvin writes:
How much do you pay for medications without separate insurance? How much does insurance cost, and how much are copays?
I pay 121/mth for my wife and me but that is part of a company plan so I don't actually know how much the full cost is.
I assume drug costs are the same is in the US but I don't actually know.
AbE If we are actually hospitalized the drugs while in hospital are covered under the medicare system.
Edited by GDR, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Rahvin, posted 10-06-2011 7:49 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024