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Author Topic:   Report Discussion Problems Here 3.0
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 406 of 683 (636514)
10-07-2011 3:52 AM
Reply to: Message 405 by Chuck77
10-07-2011 3:00 AM


Re: Chuck77
So all I did was come here to comment tonight and now I have to deal with stuff like this???
Panda is a problem here, simple as that. His purpose is to instigate and harass. Plain and simple.
Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 405 by Chuck77, posted 10-07-2011 3:00 AM Chuck77 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 408 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-07-2011 9:45 AM Chuck77 has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 407 of 683 (636517)
10-07-2011 5:13 AM
Reply to: Message 403 by Chuck77
10-07-2011 2:45 AM


Re: Chuck77
I realise that these are mainly responses to your own posts, but rants noted anyway.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 403 by Chuck77, posted 10-07-2011 2:45 AM Chuck77 has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 408 of 683 (636536)
10-07-2011 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 406 by Chuck77
10-07-2011 3:52 AM


Re: Chuck77
When I find other posters to be bothersome, I just stop reading what they write... Its really easy to not-read something.
This is the internet, man. Its not worth getting excited about it. Chill out.
Stick to arguing the position, and don't worry about who the person typing it is. There's no need to get personal. And it might keep your blood pressure down.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 406 by Chuck77, posted 10-07-2011 3:52 AM Chuck77 has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 409 of 683 (636540)
10-07-2011 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 402 by Panda
10-07-2011 1:56 AM


Infinite brickbats and targets tempt the tosser
The essential problem with the Cheers/Jeers system is that each member has an infinite supply.
I've noticed the "backdating" of them, too, as well as their use simply because the jeered post, while without personal attack or other off-topic comment, represents an opposing point of view.
As it stands, with an endless supply of brickbats and no date limit on targets, it promotes juvenile behavior. I don't like the system, and I'd opt out if I could, losing both the rating and the ability to impact other members' ratings.
Failing that, there should be an expiration date on when they can be applied to a post, and each member should have a limited store per time period.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 402 by Panda, posted 10-07-2011 1:56 AM Panda has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-07-2011 10:35 AM Omnivorous has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 410 of 683 (636541)
10-07-2011 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 409 by Omnivorous
10-07-2011 10:30 AM


Re: Infinite brickbats and targets tempt the tosser
The essential problem with the Cheers/Jeers system is that each member has an infinite supply.
But don't all of my votes for you get averaged into just one vote? I can't just Jeer at every message you've written and bring you down to a 1. All those count as one negetive mark to be calculated with all the other individuals who vote.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by Omnivorous, posted 10-07-2011 10:30 AM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 411 by Omnivorous, posted 10-07-2011 10:41 AM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 413 by Admin, posted 10-07-2011 11:04 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 411 of 683 (636542)
10-07-2011 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 410 by New Cat's Eye
10-07-2011 10:35 AM


Re: Infinite brickbats and targets tempt the tosser
CS writes:
But don't all of my votes for you get averaged into just one vote? I can't just Jeer at every message you've written and bring you down to a 1. All those count as one negetive mark to be calculated with all the other individuals who vote.
So...if I post one negative reaction to one of your posts, that's my eternal vote on you as a poster?
That doesn't make any sense, either.
Am I misunderstanding your point?

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-07-2011 10:35 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-07-2011 10:57 AM Omnivorous has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 412 of 683 (636543)
10-07-2011 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 411 by Omnivorous
10-07-2011 10:41 AM


Re: Infinite brickbats and targets tempt the tosser
So...if I post one negative reaction to one of your posts, that's my eternal vote on you as a poster?
Yes, but not forever. I think there's a timeframe/postcount that it caculates back to... so after a while it'd be reset to zero (if you didn't react anymore). But if, within that timeframe, you gave me a positive vote, then they'd be calculated together.
Here, I found where Admin explains: Message 140:
quote:
Some may already have noticed that the old message rating system of 1 to 5 has been replaced with a like/dislike system. Here are a few details:
  • On the "Like/Dislike" line, click on the maroon thumbs-up icon to indicate you like, approve or agree with a post. It will change to a lighter color to indicate you've voted. Click again to remove your vote.
  • On the "Like/Dislike" line, click on the maroon thumbs-down icon to indicate you dislike, disapprove or disagree with a post. It will change to a lighter color to indicate you've voted. Click again to remove your vote.
  • Each vote of approval causes a lighter thumbs-up icon to be displayed with the message. Messages may accumulate any number of thumbs-up votes.
  • Each vote of disapproval causes a lighter thumbs-down icon to be displayed with the message. Messages may accumulate any number of thumbs-down votes.
  • Hovering over the thumbs-up or thumbs-down icon will list the members who voted that way.
  • Old ratings greater than 3 became a thumbs-up rating.
  • Old ratings less than 3 became a thumbs-down rating.
  • Member ratings were reset. They will be recalculated the first time someone votes for one of your messages.
  • Your messages must receive votes from at least five different members before you are given a member rating.
  • Only your most recent messages count for your member rating, up to 90 days old. If you posted more than 500 messages over the past 90 days then only your most recent 500 messages are considered.
  • There is a new member rating equation. The total number of members with a net approval of your messages minus the total number of members with a net disapproval of your messages is divided by the number of messages receiving votes. Member rating values can range between plus and minus 100.
The second part of this feature, which should be released sometime next month, will connect the message ratings to an automated Post of the Month system. Comments about messages will be part of the system. On the webpage listing the top posts, comments in a blog comment sort of style will follow each message.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by Omnivorous, posted 10-07-2011 10:41 AM Omnivorous has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 413 of 683 (636544)
10-07-2011 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 410 by New Cat's Eye
10-07-2011 10:35 AM


Re: Infinite brickbats and targets tempt the tosser
It used to work the way you describe, but the algorithm was changed when the system was revamped a couple months ago. A single individual can bring down a member's rating by simply giving Jeers votes to many of his messages. Only messages from the last 90 days count toward a member's rating.
There are several avenues for addressing this problem:
  • Limiting the number of votes that can be cast in a time period. For instance, maybe a member would only be permitted to cast 5 votes in any 24-hour period.
  • Limiting the total number of votes available at any one time. For instance, if a member had a store of 10 votes and used one of them, he would only have 9 votes left. The vote store would be replenished on some schedule, for instance, give each member an additional vote every day, up to a maximum of 10.
  • Detecting when someone is voting for messages all from a single member and disallowing it.
Abuse has been rare (though that doesn't make the objects of abuse of the system feel any better) so this is not high on the priority list.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-07-2011 10:35 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 414 by nwr, posted 10-07-2011 11:20 AM Admin has seen this message but not replied
 Message 415 by RAZD, posted 10-07-2011 11:40 PM Admin has seen this message but not replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 414 of 683 (636546)
10-07-2011 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 413 by Admin
10-07-2011 11:04 AM


Re: Infinite brickbats and targets tempt the tosser
Limiting the total number of votes available at any one time. For instance, if a member had a store of 10 votes and used one of them, he would only have 9 votes left. The vote store would be replenished on some schedule, for instance, give each member an additional vote every day, up to a maximum of 10.
That's not a bad idea, if it becomes necessary. I don't think it is necessary at this time.
Abuse has been rare ...
Yes, that's my observation.
Remember folk, when you cheer or jeer a post, that does not tell me anything at all about the post. I can read the post for myself to learn all that I want about it. So when you cheer or jeer a post, you are telling me something about you yourself. Cheering or jeering a post is making a public statement about your opinion of the post.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 413 by Admin, posted 10-07-2011 11:04 AM Admin has seen this message but not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 415 of 683 (636585)
10-07-2011 11:40 PM
Reply to: Message 413 by Admin
10-07-2011 11:04 AM


Re: Infinite brickbats and targets tempt the tosser
Hi Percy
Abuse has been rare (though that doesn't make the objects of abuse of the system feel any better) so this is not high on the priority list.
Agreed, it is usually 1 or 2 people attacking 1 or 2 people, which is not much affect on the rest.
Richard Byers and Coyote have been victims, for example.
Detecting when someone is voting for messages all from a single member and disallowing it.
The problem is when someone is attacking the person rather than the message, and that is harder to determine with a computer algorithm.
So only allowing the 5 or so to be repeat targets would tend to cover that.
It might also be interesting to be able to 'fetch' the messages that are cheered/jeered.
Personally, I think only cheers should be allowed -- that should encourage good posts rather than jeer battles.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 413 by Admin, posted 10-07-2011 11:04 AM Admin has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 416 by Straggler, posted 10-09-2011 11:30 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 416 of 683 (636675)
10-09-2011 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 415 by RAZD
10-07-2011 11:40 PM


Re: Infinite brickbats and targets tempt the tosser
Zen writes:
It might also be interesting to be able to 'fetch' the messages that are cheered/jeered.
If one cares about these things then - Yes. Absolutely.
My own rating seems to have a mind of it's own. Everytime I log on it is a bit different with no obvious reason as to why in most cases.
So do we care? Oh - Probably more than we either admit or should.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by RAZD, posted 10-07-2011 11:40 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 417 by Admin, posted 10-09-2011 12:59 PM Straggler has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 417 of 683 (636679)
10-09-2011 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 416 by Straggler
10-09-2011 11:30 AM


Re: Infinite brickbats and targets tempt the tosser
Straggler writes:
My own rating seems to have a mind of it's own. Everytime I log on it is a bit different with no obvious reason as to why in most cases.
The member rating covers the last 90 days of messages. If you were brilliant 90 days ago, then on that 91st day your member rating will likely go down. Conversely, if you were muttonheaded 90 days ago, the reverse may happen. Add to this that the member rating will be affected by new votes for any of your messages over the past 90 days and member ratings can easily move several times a week.
Unless you're cramming a lot of erudition into very few words, the easiest way to get a low member rating is posting many short comment-style messages that receive no votes. The number of messages over the past 90 days is the denominator.
I plan to add the ability to list your messages that have received votes, and several other ways to list voted messages, too.
--Percy

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 416 by Straggler, posted 10-09-2011 11:30 AM Straggler has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 418 of 683 (636779)
10-10-2011 11:30 PM


Spam

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 419 of 683 (637710)
10-17-2011 3:25 PM


Theo
Message 97
quote:
But alas, you provide no evidence. You claim there is some evidence, would you care to share it with us so we can decide whether it is meaningful evidence or not.
CS and AE would say there is no need for you to provide evidence, but you say there is evidence so I would like to see it.
ABE
I decided to put
"Wait for it" at the end of the post
But I see CS gave me a downgrade before I could come back and edit. Nice to see him living up to his potential.
I don't appreciate being mentioned personally, nor being lied about, nor being baited. I'm putting this here as a complaint, instead of telling Theo how much of a worthless bitch that cannot contribute to discussions that he is, as I have been instructed to do so.

Admin
Director
Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 420 of 683 (637747)
10-17-2011 5:54 PM


I think you're even.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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