The Evolution Of Sleep

If I were a creationist looking for a gap I think the whole issue of sleep and dreaming would be rife with opportunity. No obvious evolutionary explanation agreed upon by science as a whole and lots of opportunity for subjective mysticism regarding dreams and the like.This isn't an invite. Just an observation.

The internal workings of the brain? Which would explain why drugs, lack of sleep and other things which affect brain physiology can have such an obvious effect. Well I'll grant you that is how it seems.But then the Earth seems to be obviously flat. But if you mess with people's brains their "minds" appear to change. Surely this is rather conclusive evidence that the mind is a product of the brain.Anyway - Let's sleep on it Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

It is isn't it. And when you think that some creatures sleep half their brain at a time, some can do things like fly whilst asleep and even we can do bizzarre acts (like drive, cook, write emails etc.) whilst sleep walking - It's just very strange. Is that a genuine fact - That carnivores sleep more than grazing herbivores? It seems like a realistic pattern but I am not sure if you are just speculating or if this is a known pattern. What are you suggesting? That your mind exists somewhere free from the effects of chemistry? Without the effects of various hormones on your brain (e.g. testosterone) you would be a very different person wouldn't you? What is your "mind" if it isn't your personality and personhood? Yup. Changed it above.But I am intrigued by this notion you have of a blank slate mind free from the effects of the chemicals in your body. It makes no sense to me.And how is this biology free mind related to dreaming/sleeping?

Doesn't this sort of go back to what CS and I were talking about?If sleep makes one vulnerable then surely it would be evolved out to some extent. This seems to be in line with what you are saying here. Those animals that are put most at risk by sleeping seem to need considerably less of it.I also take on board what you say about metabolic factors. Point well made. Maybe. But it's still all a bit vague. I'll try and find some stuff on scientific research into why we dream.With your name I'm surprised your so into a thread about sleep.....

My anecdotal reaction to this is that it is wrong. I swear I had dreams as a little kid. More pertinently, I am sure that my son (now 5) has been dreaming for years. I have heard him talk in his sleep, I know he has woken up and been in a terrible state after night terrors and he even once asked me (well over a year ago) Why do I see stories when I am asleep?.I am also sure that dogs dream based on seeing them almost act out chasing things whilst asleep and waking themselves up barking (A just awoken confused mutt is quite a funny sight) Likewise.

Fair point. Which might explain why grazers in wide open plains sleep so little? Well I like your idea of "real world". And I never did understand those pesky triffids were able to sense things.

I've just seen your vid. A case in point.

That fits in perfectly with my own experience. Almost all of my most vivid dreams these days involve terrible things happening to my kids as a result of me not doing something. From leaving the baby seat on top of the car and then driving off with it still on the roof to losing them at crowded festivals via more surreal events involving random holes in the road and all sorts of strange nutjobbery.This could be seen as either preparing me for such an event or making me be even more aware of certain situations (e.g. large crowds) in which such things could happen.

Interesting. Is the conclusion that the dreams are a necessary part of the 'learning to deal with it' process or a symptom of not having dealt with it that fades once other measures have been taken?