Seashells on tops of mountains.

The bible is an ancient tribal myth. It has been shown to be in error in a number of instances.Biblical literalism is better than artificial respiration at keeping ancient beliefs alive, but that doesn't make it so.Evidence for claims? Science has lots of evidence--whole libraries and museums full of evidence.Creationism has only apologetics and religious belief, which doesn't stand up to scientific evidence.Science easily shows that creationism fails.

This is absolutely false. The K-T boundary is over 60 million years ago. The biblical scholars place the flood at about 4,350 years ago. How do you explain that difference? (Answer: you don't--you just make it up as you go.) All nonsense. Belief isn't evidence. (See signature.)

Replace the word "Bible" with any other book."Harry Potter is evidence to those who know it's true"The Iliad is evidence to those who know it's true.Saying that it's evidence to those who believe it is evidence is circular. It's not supportive of the claim that it is actually evidence. No, creationism denies reality.I find it extremely disingenuous of you to be criticizing science while using a computer.I don't criticize your fairy tales using prayer.

Hi Zen,

quote:

---

Genesis 10:25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.

---

I don't know if the entire dry earth being divided would be classified as an earthquake, or a division of the land mass.But in the days of Peleg the earth was divided.Until then the land mass was in one place according to the Bible.

quote:

---

Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

​

1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

---

There was a patch of dry land that was called earth.I can find no place where the land was divided between Genesis 1:9 and Genesis 10:25.I hope that satisfies your question and request for information.You do agree that at one time there was one land mass that formed the land masses we have today don't you?God Bless,

As pandion wrote a bit earlier: "However, if the massive earth upheaval that you imagine actually happened in the short time that is required to fit into your mythology, that much earth movement would have produced enough heat to reduce the entire surface of the earth to molten rock."I know that GDI is the standard answer and thus applicable to any problem. However it would be quite nice to get some or any answers on how exactly were the laws of physics altered allowing plates to move at rapid speeds WITHOUT creating much heat or massive mountain ranges rising without anyone noticing and/or thinking enough of that to write it down.This will (and should) probably be answered in detail in the thread about recent flood but I will not hold my breath.

Hi Robert,I continue to hope that you'll support your ideas with evidence. For example, it has been mentioned to you that some creationists like yourself believe the K/T line represents the flood, while other creationists believe it is the Cambrian explosion. Backing your position with evidence means describing the evidence that tells you it is the K/T line and not the Cambrian layers that represents the flood.

As we're approaching 300 posts it's time to think about closing this thread. It's several years old and only recently became active again. I think it would be a good idea to allow the thread to continue another hundred messages or so for the current participants to try to get through some of the current issues. I won't initiate the thread closure process until 400 messages.Some have focused squarely on the topic of seashells on mountain tops, and I'd like to see those efforts continue. The number of participants has obscured the important points, and it might be a good idea if someone from each side could restate the key issues for their point of view.

Hi saab, First things first. Zen asked for scripture text that said there was a great upheval after the flood. I provided that text.Do you disagree that the text in the Bible I quoted provides such information?Now to your statements as to heat that would be caused by such rapid movement and how it would be disapated.There is enough water in the earth's mantel to fill our present oceans 7 times.How and when did that water get there?Now as to the OP and seashells on the mountains I find in Genesis 1:2 a land mass we call earth that is covered with water. This land mass was covered by water a long time before the flood of Noah, and for an undetermined duration.And yes I have no problem in believing that God can do anything, as I believe Genesis 1:1.Any entity that could create the universe would have the ability to do anything.God Bless,

Obviously you're not a geologist, then. Flood geology is not geology, it's wishful thinking. No science involved in "flood geology". Just an old book. It's easy to state. Evidence is what counts. Any empiracal evidence for a global flood a few thousand years ago? Without evidence it doesn't exist, like the tooth mouse. No, as there's no empirical evidence for such a flood a few thousand years ago. Do you think that all those thousands of experts around the world haven't investigated? Luckily we know what deposits laid down by water look like. Studies of those rocks do count. We don't need analogies. Just facts. Do you think that all those thousands of geologists all over the world don't know what a formation deposited by a flood (big, intermediate, small, local, local, regional, continental, hemispherical, global) would look like? What is a logical falacy is if creationists try to tell you that a pyroclastic deposition was "deposited by a global flood"!

Hi pandion, small point GPS at its normal best accuracy (for civilians) is to the about 3 meters, or about 10 ft. An 8 ft error is normal. Mine shows a circle rather than a point, with the circle radius = accuracy.I've also had mine tell me I was 20ft above sea level when I was standing with my feet in the water at high tide ... didn't know I could fly .Enjoy.Edited by Zen Deist, : flying

Except that every other time he had run that route it showed that he had run along the street. After the quake, it showed that he had run across the tops of the buildings to the west of the street.

H Zen DiestThe GPS is amazing! It is fantastic when I do cartography. It is accurate to about 10 metres, just as claimed on the box my device was sold in. Just read the instructions. Easy. The GPS is probably the second best thing the US military has ever provided the whole world! The internet is number 1.Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Hi ICANT Divided by what? Divided between sons? ... between people? ... between nations?No reference to ground shaking, which is rather symptomatic of earthquakes, yes? Which one?Pangaea - Wikipedia

quote:

---

Pangaea, Panga, or Pangea (pronounced /pnˈdʒiːə/ pan-jee-ə,[1] from Ancient Greek πᾶν pan "entire", and Γαῖα Gaia "Earth", Latinized as Ga) is hypothesized as a supercontinent that existed during the Paleozoic and Mesozoic eras about 250 million years ago, before the component continents were separated into their current configuration.[2]

​

Animation of the break-up of Pangaea and the formation of modern continents.

​

The forming of supercontinents and their breaking up appears to be cyclical through Earth's 4.6 billion year history. There may have been several others before Pangaea. The fourth-last supercontinent, called Columbia or Nuna, appears to have assembled in the period 2.0-1.8 Ga.[4][5]

​

... Rodinia, formed from the accretion and assembly of its fragments. Rodinia lasted from about 1.1 billion years ago (Ga) until about 750 million years ago ...

​

... the relatively short-lived supercontinent of Pannotia. ... lasted until 540 Ma. near the beginning of the Cambrian epoch and then broke up, giving rise to the continents of Laurentia, Baltica, and the southern supercontinent of Gondwana.

​

... By the Triassic Period, Pangaea rotated a little, in a southwest direction. The Cimmerian plate was still travelling across the shrinking Paleo-Tethys, until the Middle Jurassic time. The Paleo-Tethys had closed from west to east, creating the Cimmerian Orogeny. Pangaea looked like a C, with an ocean inside the C, the new Tethys Ocean. Pangaea had rifted by the Middle Jurassic, ...

​

There were three major phases in the break-up of Pangaea. The first phase began in the Early-Middle Jurassic (about 175 Ma), when Pangaea began to rift from the Tethys Ocean in the east to the Pacific in the west, ultimately giving rise to the supercontinents Laurasia and Gondwana. ...

​

The second major phase in the break-up of Pangaea began in the Early Cretaceous (150—140 Ma), when the minor supercontinent of Gondwana separated into multiple continents (Africa, South America, India, Antarctica, and Australia). ...

---

In other words, the LAST supercontinent broke up well before the k-t event. Nope. I want to see Robert Byers show where earthquakes are mentioned.Enjoy.

Hi saab93f, and welcome to the fray, Here's a tip:type [qs=pandion]However, ... molten rock.[/qs] and it becomes: Enjoy

Hi again Robert Byers,Still no reference to earthquakes being mentioned in the bible. Assertion of opinion is not fact, and has amazingly minute (if not invisible) ability to alter reality.Do you realize that the rocks that form the rockies date older than the k-t event, yes?Geology of the Rocky Mountains - Wikipedia

quote:

---

The rocks making up the mountains were formed before the mountains were raised. In the north, the rocks were the original continental rocks formed more than one billion years ago. In the south, an older mountain range was formed 300 million years ago, then eroded away. The rocks of that older range were reformed into the Rocky Mountains

​

The Rocky Mountains took shape during an intense period of plate tectonic activity that resulted in much of the rugged landscape of the western North America. The Laramide orogeny, about 80—55 million years ago, was the last of the three episodes and was responsible for raising the Rocky Mountains.[1]

---

So all the rocks are older than the k-t event, and most of the mountain formation occurred before the k-t event, with some occurring during the k-t event and some final touches afterwards -- with the dates involved using the same dating methodology for the mountains and the k-t event.So you still have not answered my questions (Message 281):

1. So we should still see a layer of seashells under the volcanic layers (or at least under the ash and cinder covered areas, as lava tends to melt seashells), yes?
2. Any biblical reference for massive earthquakes after the flood? Chapter\verse\quote?
3. So these ("mountains did not exist day one after the flood ... only came into existence later")should be the newest mountains on earth, yes?
4. And they would not show the effects of volcanism, but of rapid upheaval, yes?
5. And the upper surfaces should still have been covered by the flood before the upheaval, yes?
6. So we should still see a layer of seashells on top of these (newest) mountains, yes?
7. But all these land areas ("so no seashells. Plus many areas had sediment from land areas and not the oceans." were underwater during the flood, yes?
8. Why no layer of sea shells on top of the areas of "general massive earth upheaval" and where "many areas had sediment from land areas" --- or do you agree that the evidence of seashells is not from growth during the flood?

So there should be a buried of seashells and then land layers upside-down from the layers below the seashell layer, with the oldest layers on top, yes? No such thing. Volcanic activity results in (igneous) rock from solidified lava, cinder or ash. IF the land the mountains were formed from, were underwater during the flood ...
THEN there should be seashells around ... yes?Enjoy.