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Author Topic:   The C.C.O.I. (Christian Cult Of Ignorance) and Willful Ignorance
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 212 of 670 (637482)
10-16-2011 1:56 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by nwr
10-16-2011 1:46 AM


Re: Poe's law
He probably knows what it says far better than you.

And you determined this how? I'm going to go ask Straggler how much about Science you know, oh wait he's already answered that, it seems nothing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by nwr, posted 10-16-2011 1:46 AM nwr has acknowledged this reply

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 213 of 670 (637484)
10-16-2011 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by Nuggin
10-16-2011 1:46 AM


Re: What Christians are best at
It's the CCOI at it's very best. Actively proving that even other Christians thing Christians are woefully ignorant.

Boy Nuggin, first ID now Christianity. You really are ignorant of these topics.

Nuggin, stop commenting man, your showing your ignorance. Christians don't go around saying we are aloud to judge God like Jar did.

Ok? Take a Christianity 101 course, then, ID 101.

Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Nuggin, posted 10-16-2011 1:46 AM Nuggin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Larni, posted 10-16-2011 10:31 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded
 Message 219 by Nuggin, posted 10-16-2011 10:44 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded
 Message 244 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-18-2011 9:32 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30996
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 214 of 670 (637512)
10-16-2011 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by Chuck77
10-16-2011 12:43 AM


Re: Poe's law
Do you know what a "Poe" is?

Are the following quotes from the Western Canon?

Genesis 3 writes:

22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

Genesis 18 writes:

23And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?

24Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?

25That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

We are charged to judge even God's behavior and to point out where God is behaving poorly.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Chuck77, posted 10-16-2011 12:43 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6316
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 215 of 670 (637514)
10-16-2011 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by Chuck77
10-16-2011 12:43 AM


Re: Poe's law
I don't think you understand Poe's Law.

In the words of Inigo Montoya.

In order for this to be a Poe Jar would have to sound like you. A fundie. If any posts could be interpreted as Poe's yours could.

quote:
Poes Law states: Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humour, it is impossible to create a parody of fundamentalism that someone won't mistake for the real thing.

Source

As Jar has never sounded like a fundie his posts do not qualify as a Poe. Yours on the other hand...

BTW Poe's law is without smilies not with.

As has been stated to you numerous times you might want to understand a subject before you post on it.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Chuck77, posted 10-16-2011 12:43 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

    
Admin
Director
Posts: 12602
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 216 of 670 (637515)
10-16-2011 9:53 AM


Moderator On Duty
Since this thread has become active again, I will serve as moderator.

Anyone can now participate in this thread. I'll keep it here in the The Great Debate forum. I'll allow discussion to proceed up to 400 posts before transitioning into summation mode.

Moderators should refrain not only from bias, but also from giving even the impression of bias, but that doesn't mean that when someone dons the moderator role that they must place a veil over their own knowledge and experience. A moderator is far more than just a mechanical enforcer of the Forum Guidelines.

That being said, I have to comment on the irony of exhibiting profound and willful ignorance while taking the con side in a debate about whether there exists a Christian penchant or at least predisposition toward ignorance on topics they find antithetical to their religious beliefs. I'd like to see a serious discussion, and that can't happen while the con side is emphasizing a LOL-style approach.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by jar, posted 10-16-2011 10:41 AM Admin has acknowledged this reply

    
Larni
Member
Posts: 3976
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(3)
Message 217 of 670 (637518)
10-16-2011 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by Chuck77
10-16-2011 2:14 AM


Re: What Christians are best at
I've noticed something about you. You are fond of stating what you think other people think: Nuggin is ignorant about ID (even when he gave several first rate evidences of ID being repackaged creationism) and all women are insecure and lie about settling for men they end up with.

I think that you think that you know the real reasons people say, do and think the things they do. You also believe this with a high degree of certainty and this prevents you from actually taking on board what they may be trying to communicate to you.

Typical authoritarian conservative xian.

How does it feel?


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

Moreover that view is a blatantly anti-relativistic one. I'm rather inclined to think that space being relative to time and time relative to location should make such a naive hankering to pin-point an ultimate origin of anything, an aspiration that is not even wrong.

Well, Larni, let's say I much better know what I don't want to say than how exactly say what I do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Chuck77, posted 10-16-2011 2:14 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30996
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 218 of 670 (637521)
10-16-2011 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by Admin
10-16-2011 9:53 AM


Re: Moderator On Duty
Hey Admin, can I have my "i" words and "s" words back?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Admin, posted 10-16-2011 9:53 AM Admin has acknowledged this reply

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 665 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


(5)
Message 219 of 670 (637522)
10-16-2011 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by Chuck77
10-16-2011 2:14 AM


Re: What Christians are best at
I'm reminded of a quote:
'Chuck77' writes:

Remember now Nuggin, argue the postion and not the person. When you argue the person like you are, it makes it look like you are clueless to the topic and instead are resorting to a low level of debating tactics. Sad bro, sad.

Let's see how that relates to this recent post.

'Chuck77' writes:

You really are ignorant


'Chuck77' writes:

Nuggin, stop commenting man, your showing your ignorance.

Seems like you are, what was it you said? Oh right, "clueless on the topic" and "sad".

Now, let's discuss this quote a in a little more detail:

'Chuck77' writes:

your showing your ignorance.

See, in my book, 'irony' would be insulting someone for 'ignorance' while misusing "your/you're" thus demonstrating your (not "you're) ignorance.

Does that seem ironic to you? (Notice, I said "to you" not "too you" or "two you" or "to ewe").

Now that that's cleared up, let's discuss _your_ claim.

Christians don't go around saying we are aloud to judge God like Jar did.

By the way, it's "allowed" meaning "permitted to", not "aloud" meaning "in a voice other people can hear" (note that's "hear" not "here").

My original point was that Christians seem particularly fond of declaring that other people "aren't Christian" because they don't do what person A wants them to do.

You know how you can tell that that was my original point? Because I said it in the post you quote-mined.

Here (not "hear), I'll repost it for you.

'Nuggin' writes:

Seems like the only thing Christians truly excel at is identifying people they think are the "wrong kind of Christians".

Basically, anyone who disagrees with them on any aspect of the Bible "doesn't know what they are talking about" because (implied statement) "I have a direct line to God and everyone else is just faking it".

Of course, since you all seem to be making the exact same claim and accusing each other of not understanding the true meaning of the word, it leaves the rest of us to assume you are all right in that you are all wrong.

It's the CCOI at it's very best. Actively proving that even other Christians think Christians are woefully ignorant.

Now, your (not "you're") response to my pointing out that Christians truly excel at identifying people they think are the "wrong kind of Christians" was to point out that Jar is the wrong kind of Christian.

Frankly, Chucky, I don't think you grasp the concept of debate very well. You see, when I make a point, it's in your (not "you're) best interest to avoid proving my point with your (again, not "you're") response.

In summary, I'll leave you with this gem:

'Chucky77' writes:

stop commenting man, your showing your ignorance.

I suggest you (not "ewe) take your (not "you're" or even "yore") advice.

Edited by Nuggin, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Chuck77, posted 10-16-2011 2:14 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

    
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12445
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 220 of 670 (637542)
10-16-2011 12:37 PM


Philosophy Of God and human attempts at definition of Deity
jar writes:

What is the topic of the thread?

Now you say I should not point out what the Bible actually says?

Not at all...keep reminding us what scripture says. The overall topic (or subtopic, as it is) is belief...and how people arrive at their belief. All I am suggesting is that God is not determined or defined by any one human. (Or book, for that matter.)

Chuck77 writes:

It's taken me long enough but I finally figured it out. Whenever Jar talks about Christianity he's using Poe's Law, but without the smilies. That's what throws eveyone off. Becauae really, the dude hasn't the slightest clue at all what the Bible teaches says or means let alone anything concerning Christianity whatsoever.

Actually, Chuck, jar does know what the Bible says, probably better than most of us. He differs in that he does not believe the collection of books known as the Bible is inerrant or somehow the final word from God. My faith is based on my experience (as I believe it to be and have felt that is is and was) from encounters with God Himself. Jar would rightly question me..."how do you know that it is or was God?" And he does have a point. Who is any one group or chapter of Christianity to tell everyone else what the book means or is supposed to mean?

Thats why we have this discussion forum and why I am resurrecting this old topic.

So what are we discussing now? In my opinion, we are discussing human interpretations of who God is, what our role is, and how our relationship with each other and perhaps with a Deity unfolds in this discussion. Jar and I had what I thought was a good exchange of ideas concerning Gods foreknowledge and human freewill or lack of same.


  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12445
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 221 of 670 (637544)
10-16-2011 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by jar
07-02-2007 12:12 PM


Re: The Responsibility to Question
Phat writes:

My question to you is: In your quest for testing your beliefs and affirming some things and rejecting others, how do you determine what is and is not of God?

jar writes:

You test against reason, logic and reality

Has it been your experience in your spiritual beliefs that it appears that what God says (in the books) is unreasonable, illogical, or unrealistic?

Is this why you say:

quote:
We are charged to judge even God's behavior and to point out where God is behaving poorly.

In your preferred chapter of club Christian, are people actively encouraged to question the Bible?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by jar, posted 07-02-2007 12:12 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by jar, posted 10-16-2011 12:55 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30996
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 222 of 670 (637546)
10-16-2011 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by Thugpreacha
10-16-2011 12:50 PM


Re: The Responsibility to Question
Phat writes:

Has it been your experience in your spiritual beliefs that it appears that what God says (in the books) is unreasonable, illogical, or unrealistic?

HUH?

That sentence makes absolutely no sense.

Try rewording it and perhaps I might be able to offer some answer.

Phat writes:

In your preferred chapter of club Christian, are people actively encouraged to question the Bible?

HUH?

Again, what does that even mean?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-16-2011 12:50 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-16-2011 1:09 PM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12445
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 223 of 670 (637550)
10-16-2011 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by jar
10-16-2011 12:55 PM


Re: The Responsibility to Question
OK, master...grasshopper will try again to make better use of his wording in his questions!

1)Does the Bible suggest that God is unreasonable, illogical, or unrealistic?

1a) Do you personally believe that GOD (The One you believe exists as said in the Nicene Creed is unreasonable, illogical, or unrealistic?
(I'm guessing that you are going to say that its silly to discuss an unknowable conception)

2) Are Anglicans and Episcopalians encouraged to question the Bible and in what it says or means for believers and people in general today?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by jar, posted 10-16-2011 12:55 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by jar, posted 10-16-2011 1:16 PM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 226 by Nuggin, posted 10-16-2011 1:24 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30996
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 224 of 670 (637551)
10-16-2011 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Thugpreacha
10-16-2011 1:09 PM


Re: The Responsibility to Question
Phat writes:

1)Does the Bible suggest that God is unreasonable, illogical, or unrealistic?

Again, there is no such thing as "the God of the Bible". There are many such critters. And it is not a matter of suggestion but rather what the different stories actually say. And yes, many of the gods found in the Bible stories are unreasonable, illogical and unrealistic.

Consider the god found in the Exodus myth or the one found in Joshuah or Kings. Consider the god found in Genesis 2 & 3.

Phat writes:

2) Are Anglicans and Episcopalians encouraged to question the Bible and in what it says or means for believers and people in general today?

HUH?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-16-2011 1:09 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-16-2011 1:28 PM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12445
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 225 of 670 (637552)
10-16-2011 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by iano
11-02-2010 9:23 AM


How Big? How Wise? How Comprehendable?
Ian, do you believe that the Bible describes God completely? Do you believe that God can be known fully and understood fully? Are humans able to fully understand the reasoning of such a Deity? Is it more important to understand Him or to understand each other?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by iano, posted 11-02-2010 9:23 AM iano has not yet responded

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 665 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 226 of 670 (637554)
10-16-2011 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Thugpreacha
10-16-2011 1:09 PM


Re: The Responsibility to Question
1)Does the Bible suggest that God is unreasonable, illogical, or unrealistic?

IMO, the Bible does an excellent Job (haha) of making it EXTREMELY clear that God is unreasonable, illogical and unrealistic most, if not all, of the time.

Exodus is a terrific example.
Job is a terrific example.
Genesis is a terrific example.

The God character in these stories is less reasonable than more Greek deities, and that is saying something.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-16-2011 1:09 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

    
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