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Author Topic:   The C.C.O.I. (Christian Cult Of Ignorance) and Willful Ignorance
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13370
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 227 of 675 (637557)
10-16-2011 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by jar
10-16-2011 1:16 PM


Re: The Responsibility to Question
jar writes:

Huh?

The God described in the Nicene Creed is whom? GOD, God, or god?

The purpose of this question, and what I'm trying to drag out of you, is whether we can arrive at a consensus of who God is, assuming that GOD is unknowable and that god is, as pointed out by you, a chameleon of poetic license past and present.

By the way, you may explain to our other participants what you mean by GOD, God, and god.

I was under the impression that GOD is the actual Deity who either absolutely exists or absolutely does not.

God is the human attempts to frame such a Deity and define such a Deity based on beliefs, customs, and experiences.

I'm not sure what you meant by god.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by jar, posted 10-16-2011 1:16 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by jar, posted 10-16-2011 1:37 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31764
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 228 of 675 (637560)
10-16-2011 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Thugpreacha
10-16-2011 1:28 PM


Re: The Responsibility to Question
The God described in the Nicene Creed is the God described in the Nicene Creed.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-16-2011 1:28 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13370
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 229 of 675 (637701)
10-17-2011 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by jar
07-10-2007 5:26 PM


Re: What God expects
jar writes:


You are being inconsistent again.

You said God foreknows every decision that will be made.

I've been doing some thinking lately and conclude that Gods foreknowledge is unknown. I believe that He created us with the ability to turn right or left, however. We can never claim that He foreknew that we would end up in one spot.

Edited by Phat, : fixed boo boo


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by jar, posted 07-10-2007 5:26 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by jar, posted 10-17-2011 5:02 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31764
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 230 of 675 (637728)
10-17-2011 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Thugpreacha
10-17-2011 2:53 PM


Re: What God expects
So God does not have foreknowledge?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-17-2011 2:53 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by Jon, posted 10-18-2011 1:20 AM jar has acknowledged this reply
 Message 232 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-18-2011 2:16 AM jar has responded

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 231 of 675 (637797)
10-18-2011 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by jar
10-17-2011 5:02 PM


Re: What God expects
A God with foreknowledge isn't hard to imagine, and it doesn't pose all too many problems.

Depending on how else we define God, the problems it does pose may be unacceptable to some. Others may not care.

Jon


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by jar, posted 10-17-2011 5:02 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13370
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 232 of 675 (637801)
10-18-2011 2:16 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by jar
10-17-2011 5:02 PM


Re: What God expects
jar writes:

So God does not have foreknowledge?

We can never know. All that we can do is live the best way that we innately know how. The journey is more important than the destination.

You and I can theoretically say that IF God knows this or that, then_________ but realistically, it is an unanswerable question.


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 Message 230 by jar, posted 10-17-2011 5:02 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by jar, posted 10-18-2011 8:52 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31764
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 233 of 675 (637825)
10-18-2011 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by Thugpreacha
10-18-2011 2:16 AM


Re: What God expects
Again, whether we can know or not is irrelevant.

The question is "Is a God that has complete foreknowledge and is the creator of all that is, seen and unseen and that send some people to hell evil?"


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-18-2011 2:16 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-18-2011 8:55 AM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13370
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 234 of 675 (637826)
10-18-2011 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by jar
07-11-2007 1:26 PM


Re: Back to basics.
jar writes:

If God Creates something and is aware of all that that critter will do in the future, then that critter has no freewill.

It really is simple. If I create a machine that I know will always turn left, then even if that thing "Thinks it will decide which way to turn" it will always turn left.

If you created a machine that had an awareness of right and left and chose its directions based on evaluation, even if you had a printout indicating the directions that the machine would go during its operating life, all that you would see on the printout is the result of the machines computations.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by jar, posted 07-11-2007 1:26 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by jar, posted 10-18-2011 8:55 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31764
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 235 of 675 (637827)
10-18-2011 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by Thugpreacha
10-18-2011 8:52 AM


Re: Back to basics.
Too funny.

Also irrelevant to the example I presented.

If I know before hand exactly which turns the machine will make then it is still without freewill. The machine might think it has freewill but the print out shows it did not.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-18-2011 8:52 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-18-2011 9:07 AM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13370
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 236 of 675 (637828)
10-18-2011 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 233 by jar
10-18-2011 8:52 AM


Re: What God expects
jar writes:

The question is "Is a God that has complete foreknowledge and is the creator of all that is, seen and unseen and that send some people to hell evil?"

Keyword: Send.

If Hell exists and is an option of the directions that a person will go in life, does the person send themselves to Hell (or to any of the other optional destinations) or does God send them by virtue of having created the mind that is the instrument of decision?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by jar, posted 10-18-2011 8:52 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by jar, posted 10-18-2011 9:00 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31764
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 237 of 675 (637829)
10-18-2011 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 236 by Thugpreacha
10-18-2011 8:55 AM


What God does.
Read what I write.

If the God has foreknowledge then that God knows even before that critter is created that that critter will go to hell.

Such a God is simply evil.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-18-2011 8:55 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-18-2011 9:14 AM jar has responded
 Message 251 by Jon, posted 10-18-2011 3:36 PM jar has responded
 Message 253 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-25-2011 11:30 AM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13370
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 238 of 675 (637830)
10-18-2011 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by jar
10-18-2011 8:55 AM


Re: Back to basics.
jar writes:

If I know before hand exactly which turns the machine will make then it is still without freewill. The machine might think it has freewill but the print out shows it did not.

Before commenting, lets think if this analogy of a human designer of a machine is analogous to God (Creator of all seen and unseen) and a human.

As for the example of a human designing a machine, the human, by programming the machine, has given it all that it can possibly do. All that the machines computer c an do is to calculate probabilities, variables, and outcomes and arrive at an answer. There is no empathy or morality (yet) in a computer program.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by jar, posted 10-18-2011 8:55 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by jar, posted 10-18-2011 9:09 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31764
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 239 of 675 (637832)
10-18-2011 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by Thugpreacha
10-18-2011 9:07 AM


Re: Back to basics.
Again, that is totally irrelevant and misrepresents the question.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-18-2011 9:07 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13370
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 240 of 675 (637834)
10-18-2011 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 237 by jar
10-18-2011 9:00 AM


Re: What God does.
jar writes:

If the God has foreknowledge then that God knows even before that critter is created that that critter will go to hell.

Keyword: foreknowledge. One definition that I found was this:

quote:
Awareness of something before it happens or exists.

Computers are not human minds. What is the difference between what a computer does and what a human mind is capable of doing? One answer that jumps out at me is this: The ability to think independently of a program.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by jar, posted 10-18-2011 9:00 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by jar, posted 10-18-2011 9:20 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31764
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 241 of 675 (637838)
10-18-2011 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 240 by Thugpreacha
10-18-2011 9:14 AM


Re: What God does.
That is still totally irrelevant. The discussion is about what God does, not what the human does.

If the God has foreknowledge then that God knows even before that critter is created that that critter will go to hell.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-18-2011 9:14 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-18-2011 9:23 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
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