Summations Only

There is much confusion about what the Bible says about the flood of Noah.Genesis 1:9, 10 tells us the water was gathered to one place and dry land appeared which was called earth, or dry land if you prefer.There is no place that is stated that the land was divided prior to the flood of Noah.Genesis 6:7 tells us the LORD was going to destroy all creatures, both man, and beast, including the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air.Genesis 6:8 tells us, But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.Genesis 6:13, 14 tells us God told Noah to build an ark and the following verses told him the size of the ark to build.Noah was told who his passengers would be.Chapter 7 tells us that the passengers arrived and were boarded.Genesis 7:11,12 tells us that the fountains of the deep was opened up and the windows of heaven were opened and it began to rain and did so for 40 days and 40 nights.The following verses tells us that the water was upon the earth 150 days before it began to receed, which took another 150 days.Genesis 10:25 tells us that the earth was divided in the days of Peleg.That being the case there would be no worldwide layer of anything left by the flood.In Message 1 iceage said:

quote:

---

But just how does a single deluge transport immobile animals and marine plants up the higher elevations and even sometimes deposited marine fossils in several different horizons in a single column?

---

I will argue the Bible does not teach the flood transported immobile animals to higher elevations..In Message 26 Buzsaw states:

quote:

---

Imo, since the ocean crusts average much thinner than the continental crusts by about 6 or 7 times thinner, likely the massive flood waters flowing to the lower thinner crust valleys caused a great amount of tectonic movement of both the larger 7 plates and the more numerous smaller plates causing tectonic plate collisions and uplift etc. This activity would no doubt do a great deal of mountain forming including the larger ranges which tend to be near the coastlines of the oceans, imo making flood sense.

---

I will argue the Bible does not teach tectronic plate collisions took place during the flood.In Message 95 Buzsaw states:

quote:

---

1. I believe Mt Everest was formed by a collision of two plates, imo caused by flood induced tectonic activity.
2. Some volcanoe peaks were heat induced. If you are referring to the canopy theory that would be a different topic.

---

I will argue the Bible does not teach the flood induced tectronic activity Buzsaw proclaims.In Message 22 Taz said:

quote:

---

A violent world wide flood that covered even the highest mountain top we would expect to distribute things very evenly (that is if it's possible for a flood to bring up sea shells to some thousands and thousands of feet high). These same fossils are found on the sides of some mountains while are found on tops of other mountains. These locations are some thousands of feet high in variation.

---

I will argue there was no violent world wide flood. But that there was a world wide flood.

quote:

---

Geophysically, we begin with a pre-Flood earth differentiated into core, mantle, and crust, with the crust horizontally differentiated into sialic craton and mafic ocean floor. The Flood was initiated as slabs of oceanic floor broke loose and subducted along thousands of kilometers of pre-Flood continental margins. Deformation of the mantle by these slabs raised the temperature and lowered the viscosity of the mantle in the vicinity of the slabs. A resulting thermal runaway of the slabs through the mantle led to meters-per-second mantle convection. Cool oceanic crust which descended to the core/mantle boundary induced rapid reversals of the earth’s magnetic field. Large plumes originating near the core/mantle boundary expressed themselves at the surface as fissure eruptions and flood basalts. Flow induced in the mantle also produced rapid extension along linear belts throughout the sea floor and rapid horizontal displacement of continents. Upwelling magma jettisoned steam into the atmosphere causing intense global rain. Rapid emplacement of isostatically lighter mantle material raised the level of the ocean floor, displacing ocean water onto the continents. When virtually all the pre-Flood oceanic floor had been replaced with new, less-dense, less-subductable, oceanic crust, catastrophic plate motion stopped. Subsequent cooling increased the density of the new ocean floor, producing deeper ocean basins and a reservoir for post-Flood oceans.

---

SourceI will argue the Bible does not support the catastrophic global flood described at the site and in their literature, this quote was taken from.

quote:

---

Flood geology (also creation geology or diluvial geology) is the interpretation of the geological history of the Earth in terms of the global flood described in Genesis 6—9

---

SourceI will argue that the geological history of the Earth is not taught in the text to be produced by the flood of Noah.I will argue the text found in the KJV , LXX, and Hebrew Text does not support any of the above arguments.I will argue the text found in the KJV , LXX, and Hebrew Text does support a world wide flood.I will also argue that the texts support an extended period of existence in which all the land mass was covered with water other than the flood of Noah in which all life forms died.God Bless,

Hi kbertsche, I am not infering anything.I am stating that according to the text recorded in the Bible in the book of Genesis that the land mass was in one place at the time of the flood.

quote:

---

Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

​

1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

---

God called the dry land ארץ.The water was in one place which would require the dry land mass to be in one place.There is no information about the sea level of that land mass or what the highest point was on that land mass.I can find no place the Earth was divided until after the flood.There are those who have claimed it was done during the flood (YEC beliefs.).There is no such support found in the text. If you have some and would like to present it please do.I find information where the ארץ was divided during the days of Peleg which was after the tower of Babel.

quote:

---

10:25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.

---

The word Earth is translated from the same Hebrew word that the word Earth in Genesis 1:10 and 1:1 was translated from.The word Peleg is from the Hebrew word פלג as is the word divided in Genesis 10:25.The word פלג simply means division.Therefore according to the text the dry land mass as well that existed in Genesis 1:10 was divided in the days of Peleg which was after the tower of Babel.If you disagree then present your argument. The text does not say when the flood of Noah took place. The text does not say when the land mass was divided. I really don't know as I have never been able to have a meaningful conversation with anyone about what the timescale of those events would be.Remember I am argueing as to what the text in the Bibles put forth in the OP has recorded in them.If that could be settled then we could get into speculation of how those events took place.Without a foundation there is nothing to build upon.God Bless,

Hi jar, Well the text was talking about dry land there was wet land under all the water.But if you had 2 islands protuding out of that body of water you would have two places there was no water.With one island you would have the water in one place and the dry land mass in another place. But it has everything to do with the myths that have been put forth in all the flood threads I have read, here at EvC.God Bless,

Hi Percy, The waters did not have to gather together on the Earth's surface to cover the entire Earth.

quote:

---

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

---

According to the text the water already covered the face of the Earth as the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters that covered the Earth.

quote:

---

1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

---

ויאמר and he is saying
אלהים Elohim
יקו collect
המים the waters
מתחת from under
חשמים the heavens
אל to
מקום place
אחד one
ותראה and seen
היבשה the dry land
ויהי and it became
כז soThe land mass appeared because the water was gathered into one place revealing the dry land. ימים is a singular masculine verb meaning sea. It is not plural but has been translated plural many times as mankind can not think of the earth with one sea so it had to be seas.God Bless,

Hi Coragyps, The text of Genesis states there were people on Earth prior to the flood of Noah.It also places man on Earth as the first life form before the Earth was covered with the water we find at Genesis 1:2.So present your argument.God Bless,

Hi jar, Does the following text say the water was gathered into one place?

quote:

---

1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

---

You can check it in the Hebrew in my post to Percy.God Bless,

Hi jar,Does the following text say the water was gathered into one place?

quote:

---

1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

---

God Bless,

Hi kbertsche, I don't think I have committed to a time frame yet.Right now I would like to determine if the text says all the land mass was in one place prior to the flood.And that the land mass was still in one place when the flood took place.And that the land mass was divided in the days of Peleg.Lets clear that up before we move on.So why don't you answer the post you are replying to in the post I am replying too.God Bless,

Hi jar,Yes I can read English and Hebrew also.Can you answer a question?All you have to do is say Yes or No.Does the following text say the water was gathered into one place? Yes/No

quote:

---

1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

---

God Bless,

Hi jar,
Yes I can read English and Hebrew also.Can you answer a question?All you have to do is say Yes or No.Does the following text say the water was gathered into one place? Yes/No

quote:

---

1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

---

I read it, I just disagree with that assertion.If the land mass was in one place that would require a lot less water to cover it. The land mass would be much smaller than it is today and the sea level could have been much less than it is today.So yes it would have a lot to do with the flood of Noah. Yes you have asserted that several times already.So why don't you present your argumentation that there can be thousands of islands and the Aral Sea, Caspian Sea, Dead Sea, Sea of Galilee, Great Salt Lake, and the Salton Sea all of which are not connected to any ocean but all the water is still in one place according to you.God Bless,

Hi kbertsche, How does it press the text?In Message 10 I broke down Genesis 1:9 in the Hebrew with the meaning of each word.I also gave the Hebrew word that is translated seas which is a masculine singular verb. Singular is not plural. There was one sea.How could there be one sea if the Earth was as it is today. Today there is the Aral Sea, Caspian Sea, Dead Sea, Sea of Galilee, Great Salt Lake, and the Salton Sea and all of them are landlocked. That makes at least 7 places. So you agree that the text says the water was gathered to one place and the dry land appeared.You just disagree as to what one place is. So you agree that the Earth was divided in the days of Peleg.You just disagree as to what the Earth is.Could you clear up those two problems for me?In Genesis 1:1 ארץ is translated Earth.In Genesis 1:10 ארץ was translated Earth, which was the dry land that appeared when the water was collected in one place.In Genesis 10:25 ארץ was translated Earth.I really think the text was talking about the ארץ. Then why didn't Moses say the Earth was divided by an earthquake?It wasn't the people because they had already been scattered over the face of the Earth. Genesis 11:8God Bless,

Hi Joseph, I can agree that every word is important and the meaning of those words are specific. Noah was the only one that found grace in the eyes of God. Clean beast were eatable.Unclean beast were non-eatable.I think you could fit all beasts in that verse, as there was only two kinds, clean and unclean. Noah did not collect any animals. God sent them at the time for them to load on the ark. They had 120 years to get there. So they could not have traveled to the ark if God told them to go get on the ark. Is that what you are saying? Where does the text say there was no wild animals?God gave the dimensions of the ark which was not a boat and He knew the animals He was going to send to get on the ark.Why wouldn't they fit.How big do you think the ark was?It could hold more than 500 railroad cars. My last drawing I drew had over 18 acres of floor space and I think I could get another 10 or more acres in it by designing rooms for the small critters. You do understand that it started to rain seven days later and then rained for 40 days and the fountains of the deep open up and water gushed forth out of them until the hightest point on the land mass was covered with 15 cubits of water. That water stayed there for 150 days total from the day it began to rain. Then it took another 150 days for the water to receed. Yep it rained on the Earth and it don't say part of the Earth. The confusion comes when IamJoseph or someone else decides 'every' means some. More confusion as 'all' means some, according to IamJoseph. An assertion not supported by the text as it says the Earth, not Noah's part of the Earth. How does when the ark floated have anything to do with whether the flood was global or local? Since when is a cubit a foot?The Hebrew short cubit was 17.5 inches.
The Hebrew long cubit was 20.4 inches.The Egyptians and Bablonians had different length cubits.You can check them out HereWhy?Moses was the one doing the writing hundreds of years later. The word swarmeth refers to critters that swarm. Refers to anything upon the earth. On the ground refers to on the ground.Every living substance refers to every thing that had the breath of life. Gee I thought the fish were in the water that was on the whole face of the Earth. I did not know they were on the face of the dry land, where everything that had the breath of life died.God Bless,

Hi Dr, Why would you agree with me you don't believe the Bible anyway. Yes a few hundred years after the flood the people had multiplyed and was moving eastward.They decided to build a tower to heaven so they could not be scattered all over the face of the Earth.The people all spoke one language at that time.

quote:

---

Genesis 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

​

11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

​

11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

​

11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

---

קוג translated scatter means scatter or disperse.קלג translated divided means divide, split, cleave. Genesis 10:25ארץ translated Earth that the dry land in Genesis 1:10 was called.ארץ was translated Earth in Genesis 10:25 that was divided.עם translated people in Genesis 11:6 means people or nation. They were scattered not divided. Sure ther is, it says what it means and means what it says.The dry land mass that was called Earth in Genesis 1:10 was divided.The people in Genesis 11:6 who was building the tower was scatter upon the face of the Earth. You were doing real good until you decided to become a wise guy.Noah's name does not mean rain. It means rest. I really don't know why because he had a lot of work to do and I don't know when he got any rest. The Hebrew word אדם does not mean ate the forbiden fruit or anyother thing you can think of concerning the tree.The Hebrew word אדם meaning man or mankind is transliterated adm and is not the name of a specific man.The Hebrew word אדם is not a proper name although it has been adopted as one. Peleg's name is קלג which means divide, split, cleave. So there is no comparison of your Noah and Adam to Peleg. I translate when I give the Hebrew word and the definition.I interpet when I decide which definition to apply to the Hebrew word in question. Which is controled by many factors.Now as to the dividing of the Earth I agree that it would be a cataclysmic event. Almost as much so as the Earth beginning to exist.For the Earth to be divided instantly would cause a lot of problems in our way of thinking as a lot of heat would be created by the moving of the plates.But that would explain how the water that is in the mantel got there. That water being enough to fill our oceans 7 times.It would also explain how the different animals got on the different continents, as well as the people.God Bless,

Hi Joseph, What verse in the Bible says that about the animals on the Earth at the time of the flood? Please point out in the following verses any verse that leaves out any animal, especially how did this verse leave out any animal?"6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.Does 'every' mean some or does it mean all?

quote:

---

Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

​

6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

​

6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

​

6:10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

​

6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

​

6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

​

6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

​

6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.

​

6:15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.

​

6:16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.

​

6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

​

6:18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.

​

6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

​

6:20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

​

6:21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.

​

6:22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

---

Are you saying God is a liar when He said "EVERY LIVING THING" ? Where did all this mud come from? 6:19 says "And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female."That says every living thing of all flesh.That does not leave any out.Two of every sort.That covers anything you might think got left out. What dictionary do you find "ALL" means "SOME" in? Did God lie when He said: "And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die"?All flesh, wherein is the breath of life under heaven would cover any creature that lived on the dry land on planet Earth. What kind of weed is that you are smoking?A global scenario would take a lot more water than a local scenario although I don't think it took much as all the dry land was in one place as put forth in Genesis 1:9, 10.But the flood was not a tsunami. The flood was caused by rain coming down from the sky and the water coming up from the fountains of the deep. It would be something like filling your bathtub with part of the water coming out of a water hose you had put in the tub and water coming out of the shower.If the dry land was in one place as the water was in one place and the dry land was pretty close to sea level the water could rise at a slow rate and the rain could fall at a moderate rate and there would be no erosion of the dry land as it was covered with water and the ark began to rise after the water had risen close to 30 feet because of its size and load displacement. But it was not written 4,000 year ago, but 3271 to 3321 years ago. That was about a 1,000 years after the flood. But the text has no qualifier. Only IamJoseph has the qualifiers. You went to all that trouble trying to convince me of something I have always believed.I know all living life forms did not perish in the flood. There are too many living organisms in the world today.I do know that everything other that water creatures that was not in the ark perished as that is what God said He was going to do.God said:

quote:

---

6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

---

Now either everything died or God lied.I tend to believe everything under the heaven that was not in the water or the ark died.God Bless,

Hi Dr, But we were not talking abut continental drift was we?We were talking about very rapid movement of the plates which would cause immense heat that would make a lot of water very hot.Water gets in the mantel by subduction.So if there was a lot of rapid movement and heat would not a lot of water be subducted into the mantel to cool it?God Bless,