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Author Topic:   Charismatic Chaos
iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 196 of 531 (535648)
11-17-2009 6:24 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by Teapots&unicorns
11-16-2009 8:11 PM


Re: Matters of faith, fact, and fancy
T&U writes:
From what I gather, you seem to be saying that Jesus spent an eternity being crucified/dead, is that correct?
Spent - Eternity?
I understand the dilemma: folk have gotten it into their heads that eternity is time ever-elapsing - therefore it is something that can be spent ('spent' indicating progression along an elapsing timeline).
A more proper theological notion of eternity supposes it devoid of time. Meaning we cannot use words/concepts associated with time in a quantitive way (although we can use them in a qualititive way)
We can say that:
- foresaking occurred between beloved persons
- foresaking between beloved persons produces suffering
- God experienced this suffering in the realm of eternity
We cannot say that:
- Jesus is still suffering and will suffer for all time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Teapots&unicorns, posted 11-16-2009 8:11 PM Teapots&unicorns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by Teapots&unicorns, posted 11-19-2009 7:57 PM iano has not replied

  
Teapots&unicorns
Member (Idle past 4887 days)
Posts: 178
Joined: 06-23-2009


Message 197 of 531 (536094)
11-19-2009 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by iano
11-17-2009 6:24 AM


Re: Matters of faith, fact, and fancy
Hi iano, sorry for taking so long.
iano writes:
T&U writes:
From what I gather, you seem to be saying that Jesus spent an eternity being crucified/dead, is that correct?
Spent - Eternity?
I understand the dilemma: folk have gotten it into their heads that eternity is time ever-elapsing - therefore it is something that can be spent ('spent' indicating progression along an elapsing timeline).
You are correct; this is how most if not all people associate the concept of eternity. The idea of starting at zero and then counting till the highest number possible. Alternatively, eternity could be starting at the lowest number possible and counting up to the highest, but in terms of religion, exempting God, the first definition is the one most commonly used.
iano writes:
A more proper theological notion of eternity supposes it devoid of time. Meaning we cannot use words/concepts associated with time in a quantitive way (although we can use them in a qualititive way)
I don't understand. Where do you get this notion? As far as I know, it's not in the Bible anywhere. If you could show me where it is located I would be greatly intrigued.
If something lacks quantity, then, by definition, it lacks quality, and vice-versa. Nothing can happen without some semblance of time for the event to occur in. It's like needing a test to get an A on it.
Alternatively, of course, this could be interpreted that Jesus didn't spend any time whatsoever in death- just in a kind of unidentifiable cyrogenic-like state of being. This is certainly not suffering of any sort.
iano writes:
We can say that:
- foresaking occurred between beloved persons
- foresaking between beloved persons produces suffering
- God experienced this suffering in the realm of eternity
We cannot say that:
- Jesus is still suffering and will suffer for all time.
When referring to the eternities proposed in the Bible (Heaven and Hell), I am assuming that they're there for good. How can Jesus' death of 3 days, ascension to Heaven, and puny little single crucifixion possibly compare to the eternal torment of those in Heaven? If Jesus were taking man's place in Hell (without them having to believe in him), then I would have a lot more respect for the religion. As such, though, his 'forsaking' not only lacked a temporal and thus qualitative basis, it is also infinitely miniscule when compared to the inferred 'forsaking' of those in Hell.
T&U

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by iano, posted 11-17-2009 6:24 AM iano has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 198 of 531 (638278)
10-21-2011 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by ICANT
07-09-2008 9:28 PM


Is it possible to be used as Gods instrument?
I had to revive this topic! To start with, I don't believe that all expressions of faith are in vain, even if they are silly. Laughter is, after all, a very good medicine! I was watching this video, as well as some of the videos (again) that I brought up earlier in this topic, and have concluded that much of the so called "manifestation" is nothing more than people purposefully forcing themselves to laugh so as to fit in with the "spirit filled exclusive crowd". To be clear, however, I also believe that it is possible for someone to be used as an instrument of God. Examples include listening to someone say something important and profound, confidently, concisely, impact-fully, and with no apparent effort on their part.
Critics may then ask how I knew or could prove that it was a manifestation of God, and, truthfully, there would be no way to prove it. I suppose the message should be judged by its content (message) and not by its purported source.(Spirit Led)
Benny Hinn actually defended himself on ABC News.
I Can't, I saw where you wanted to start a topic on what the Bible says about the Biblical Flood. Do you personally believe that the Bible is without error? (error being defined as less than perfect wisdom, contradictory messages, and having been written and revised by humans who, perhaps, had an agenda.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by ICANT, posted 07-09-2008 9:28 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by ICANT, posted 10-21-2011 12:14 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 199 of 531 (638301)
10-21-2011 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Phat
10-21-2011 8:50 AM


Re: Is it possible to be used as Gods instrument?
Hi Phat,
Phat writes:
I don't believe that all expressions of faith are in vain,
I agree. But many are.
Phat writes:
I also believe that it is possible for someone to be used as an instrument of God.
God can use any vessel in His ministry as long as it is a clean vessel.
Phat writes:
Critics may then ask how I knew or could prove that it was a manifestation of God, and, truthfully, there would be no way to prove it. I suppose the message should be judged by its content (message) and not by its purported source.(Spirit Led)
John writing to saved born again people said:
quote:
1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Phat writes:
Benny Hinn actually defended himself on ABC News.
Benny Hinn has no defense.
I was in Grand Cayman when we were graced with Hinn's presence. His workers had been on Island several weeks when he arrived on his private jet. The evening service was started and the offering plates were passed around. A little later they were passed around again. A little later they were passed around again. After the third time he explained that it took a lot of money for him to come to a town and have a healing services and that enough had not been collected. The plates were passed around the fourth time after which there was a short service.
The next morning the jet and Mr. Hinn was gone. His people cleaned up the area that was set up and left the Island.
He can tell me he is not in it for the money, but he can't convince me, as I saw it first hand.
Phat writes:
Do you personally believe that the Bible is without error? (error being defined as less than perfect wisdom, contradictory messages, and having been written and revised by humans who, perhaps, had an agenda.
I believe the original was without error.
The text has been copied and mis-copied and revised according to modern man's biases and practices, desires and a lot of other things.
So yes they had and agenda and still do today as we have new revelations coming online all the time in the form of new bibles.
That is why I use the 1611 KJV Bible as I believe it is the best English version we have available to us today. Yes I do have a 1611 version with the old English as well as one that has the English of today.
Is it perfect? No
That is why I went to college and studied Greek and Hebrew so I can examine the oldest text's available for myself and compare to our translations.
The MT can be traced back to 900 AD with no modifications to it that was made prior to that time available. Those were all destroyed.
There are many fragments of different texts that are available as well as the Dead Sea Scrolls and the LXX.
Until the Dead Sea Scrolls were found the LXX was considered by many scholars as a bad text. But when it was found that the LXX was suported by the DSS that changed.
But yes I believe the messages that was written by Moses was perfect as they were delivered to him by God during the 40 days on the mount, and recorded during the 40 years of wandering around in the desert.
I believe that God guided the writers of the other books and kept them from error but we do not have their original writings to examine. We only have copies that have been preserved by humans who do not always want to preserve the truth.
All you have to do is read a history book from the 50's and compare it to a present day history book to realize that people do have agenda's. They have changed our history.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Phat, posted 10-21-2011 8:50 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by frako, posted 10-21-2011 3:42 PM ICANT has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 200 of 531 (638342)
10-21-2011 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by ICANT
10-21-2011 12:14 PM


Re: Is it possible to be used as Gods instrument?
God can use any vessel in His ministry as long as it is a clean vessel.
So god is incapable of using a vessel like me who is a drinking gambling ganja smoking man whore.
Or would he just feel dirty if his spirit entered mine
Benny Hinn has no defense.
I was in Grand Cayman when we were graced with Hinn's presence. His workers had been on Island several weeks when he arrived on his private jet. The evening service was started and the offering plates were passed around. A little later they were passed around again. A little later they were passed around again. After the third time he explained that it took a lot of money for him to come to a town and have a healing services and that enough had not been collected. The plates were passed around the fourth time after which there was a short service.
The next morning the jet and Mr. Hinn was gone. His people cleaned up the area that was set up and left the Island.
He can tell me he is not in it for the money, but he can't convince me, as I saw it first hand.
So when the church dose it its ok but when a faith healer does it its not ok?
In my country if you want a church funeral you have to pay for it and they never ever forget to pass the collection plate around. The same goes for weddings you need the priests permission, a few hrs of payed future marriage counseling organized by the church pay for the ceremony oh and no they do not forget to pass the collection plate during the service, if you pay for a mass for a beloved dead person they dont forget to pass the collection plate either do i have to go on or do you see the pattern here.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by ICANT, posted 10-21-2011 12:14 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by ICANT, posted 10-21-2011 5:40 PM frako has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 201 of 531 (638358)
10-21-2011 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by frako
10-21-2011 3:42 PM


Re: Is it possible to be used as Gods instrument?
Hi frako,
frako writes:
So god is incapable of using a vessel like me who is a drinking gambling ganja smoking man whore.
Just as soon as you are washed in the blood of the Lamb that was slain on the cross of Calvary, God can use you.
Because when that happens those bad habits will change because you will not be the same.
frako writes:
So when the church dose it its ok but when a faith healer does it its not ok?
It is not OK for either to exist to collect and squander money.
frako writes:
In my country if you want a church funeral you have to pay for it and they never ever forget to pass the collection plate around.
I have no idea what kind of a church you are talking about.
My present church is the first church I pastored that has paid me a salary in 42 years of pastoring.
I have been there for five years and for two of those years we paid the pastor zero salary.
Any member of the church can use the facilities for a funeral, or a wedding and there is no charge. They have invested some of their money in the church and should be able to use the facilities.
A person that is not a member of the church is charged a fee that will cover overhead, electricity, and clean up fees, as they have nothing invested in the facilities.
In the 5+ years I have pastored the church we have taken an offering on Sunday mornings only and I have never preached a sermon or mentioned giving of money in our worship services.
We discuss finances in our business meeting and everyone knows how much money we need to meet those needs. If we don't meet those needs something has to be cut which is always the pastors salary.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by frako, posted 10-21-2011 3:42 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by frako, posted 10-21-2011 6:43 PM ICANT has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 202 of 531 (638364)
10-21-2011 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by ICANT
10-21-2011 5:40 PM


Re: Is it possible to be used as Gods instrument?
Just as soon as you are washed in the blood of the Lamb that was slain on the cross of Calvary, God can use you.
Well i was just planely baphtised whiteout the blood stuff lol does that count
Because when that happens those bad habits will change because you will not be the same.
Dunno i kinda remember being a very nice boy till i got baphtised, got bapthised at the age of 12 my aunt kinda forced it on to my mother and father
I have no idea what kind of a church you are talking about.
That would be the RCC the guy who have the pope in the Vatican. When my mom and dad died in a car crash I gave them a christian burial because of my father and his side of the family the bastard priest charged for the burial and then sent a colection plate during mass, he charged for the mass after 7 days and a month and a year too dint forget his colection plate on none.
I have been there for five years and for two of those years we paid the pastor zero salary.
They dont get salleries here either but they dont have a bad life they get to buy a new car every few years, live in fine places all the modern conforts money can buy, they get fed clothed, and when they are to old to drink a pricer(wine watter mix) at 7 in the morning they get a state pension for wich the church does not contribute 1 cent in taxes.
Any member of the church can use the facilities for a funeral, or a wedding and there is no charge
Well a state company owns the graveyards and the places where the urns/cascets are kept before the funeral, so i did get a bill but it was small and they dug the old grave supplied the urn-holders and transported the urns from the crematory.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by ICANT, posted 10-21-2011 5:40 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by ICANT, posted 10-21-2011 8:30 PM frako has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 203 of 531 (638374)
10-21-2011 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by frako
10-21-2011 6:43 PM


Re: Is it possible to be used as Gods instrument?
Hi frako,
frako writes:
That would be the RCC the guy who have the pope in the Vatican.
That would explain your problems with church.
It would also explain why you were no different after your baptism than you were before.
A person has to be washed in the blood of the Lamb that died on the cross of Calvary and when that happens a person will be a different person.
A good example is a man by the name of Saul who was going about putting people in jail for even praying in the name of Jesus. He even consented unto the death of Steven. But when he met Jesus on the road to Damascus and was washed in the blood of the Lamb by believing God he was a changed man. Instead of putting people in jail for praying in the name of Jesus, he was put in jail many times for preaching the salvation of Jesus, and he never looked back.
frako writes:
They dont get salleries here either but they dont have a bad life they get to buy a new car every few years, live in fine places all the modern conforts money can buy, they get fed clothed, and when they are to old to drink a pricer(wine watter mix) at 7 in the morning they get a state pension for wich the church does not contribute 1 cent in taxes.
If I had those things I would not need a salary either. You wouldn't either would you?
I have to supply all my physical needs, whether I am getting a salary or not. It is just as if I was working a regular job at a local business.
But I serve a great God and He has supplied my every need for 72 years and I don't expect Him to fail me in the future.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by frako, posted 10-21-2011 6:43 PM frako has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by Phat, posted 10-22-2011 4:31 AM ICANT has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 204 of 531 (638424)
10-22-2011 4:31 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by ICANT
10-21-2011 8:30 PM


Being used by God, chosen or foreknowingly rejected
ICANT responding to frako writes:
A person has to be washed in the blood of the Lamb that died on the cross of Calvary and when that happens a person will be a different person.
I used to believe in salvation by Grace and profession (and repentance) yet began to question the reality of this once I saw how many church folks that had been saved (myself included) that continued making the same willful sins and dumb decisions that they had before the washed-in-the-blood experience. Jar makes a point that a God who picks and chooses who will be saved (or at least foreknowingly damned) is evil since foreknowledge erases freewill. Besides, how did this tradition start that states that all scripture is basically inerrant?
ICANT writes:
I believe that God guided the writers of the other books and kept them from error but we do not have their original writings to examine. We only have copies that have been preserved by humans who do not always want to preserve the truth.
And that brings up another honest question. Can it be that the Creator of All Seen and Unseen be so limited as to communicate with me only through these scriptures? Is there any allowance for rhema or for Holy Spirit inspired teaching and thought even from other fallible individuals? Why would people have an evil agenda now and yet Moses and the early writings have a pure agenda? I only ask questions to further understanding of God --perhaps He can use you or others at EvC to enlighten me..?
Edited by Phat, : additional ponderings...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by ICANT, posted 10-21-2011 8:30 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by ICANT, posted 10-22-2011 4:00 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 205 of 531 (638470)
10-22-2011 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Phat
10-22-2011 4:31 AM


Re: Being used by God, chosen or foreknowingly rejected
Hi Phat,
Phat writes:
And that brings up another honest question. Can it be that the Creator of All Seen and Unseen be so limited as to communicate with me only through these scriptures?
Sure God can speak to you in other ways but you have to be listening.
quote:
19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Science has a problem with how the universe is held together. They have spent many year and a lot of money trying to figure out how it is held together.
So they eventually came up with Dark Energy and Dark Matter which make up 95% of the universe. Dark Energy being 70% and Dark Matter being 25%.
More is unknown about these than is known. It has to exist or the universe would fly apart.
What is it? Not a clue.
quote:
1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Jesus is the Energy that holds the universe together.
God has given us a book that has the truth in it. We have to study it and let the Holy Spirit lead us in all truth as Jesus said He would.
Phat writes:
Why would people have an evil agenda now and yet Moses and the early writings have a pure agenda?
Who said all the early writers have a pure agenda?
Moses recorded what God gave him as did the other original writers.
The problem arises when people copied the trexts and then copied the texts and copied the texts etc.
People have biases and they show up in what a person understands a text to say. Thus they insert their biases in what they are copying by saying that is not what the orginal says.
Look at all the different Bibles that have been printed in the last 20 years. You should get the idea from that.
Phat writes:
I only ask questions to further understanding of God --perhaps He can use you or others at EvC to enlighten me..?
I am glad to see you are still searching for the truth and I pray that you find it.
Phat writes:
I used to believe in salvation by Grace and profession (and repentance) yet began to question the reality of this once I saw how many church folks that had been saved (myself included) that continued making the same willful sins and dumb decisions that they had before the washed-in-the-blood experience
Salvation is by grace and grace alone as no one deserves it.
If you could earn it so as to deserve it Christ would not have had to go to the cross of Calvary and give His life a ransom for mankind who is separated from God.
quote:
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Your good deeds will not save you as jar teaches.
quote:
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
You seem to have a miscomception of what being washed in the blood of the Lamb involves.
It seems you think it is a religious experience in which a profession is made and one is baptized and then goes to work in the church.
It is an experience of one coming face to face with Jesus and realizing we are a sinner separated from God with no means on our own to gain entrance into His presence. When we realize that and accept it as a fact then we can accept the offer of a free full pardon that was secured for everyone by the Lamb that was slain on Calvary.
The pardon is there available to everyone.
But a pardon is not in effect until it is accepted by the one it is offered too.
The following text puts it best.
quote:
3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Verse 18 sums it up pretty good, when it tells us "he that believeth is not condemened". Believing = trusting in God to do what He says He will do.
He then says man is condemned already.
So if you have not been born of the Spirit of God you are condemned.
Then he gives the only reason mankind is condemned. "Because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God".
It does not say mankind is condemned because:
He has not joined a church.
He has not been baptized.
He has not done good works.
He has not been faithful all the time
He has not paid tithes.
He has not had some great religious experience.
He is a sinner.
He never helped anyone.
He is from the wrong side of the tracks.
etc.
Man is condemned simply because he does not believe in Jesus Christ and trust Him to give him eternal life like He said He would do.
So anybody that tells you they have been washed in the blood of the Lamb and they do not follow Jesus is telling you a lie.
quote:
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
There is no room in that for a person to not follow Jesus if they belong to Jesus.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Phat, posted 10-22-2011 4:31 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Portillo
Member (Idle past 4160 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 206 of 531 (638523)
10-23-2011 4:21 AM


I hope charismatics burn in hell.

And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 207 of 531 (640411)
11-09-2011 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
07-07-2008 1:01 PM


Were Jesus to return tomorrow, would He find contemporary public Christianity to be applauded or would He see it as reprehensible?
I'm not sure... How would he tell them apart from the Pharisees?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 07-07-2008 1:01 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by Phat, posted 11-10-2011 10:49 AM Jon has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 208 of 531 (640505)
11-10-2011 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by Jon
11-09-2011 9:29 AM


If Jesus were to return tomorrow....
Phats Opening Statement writes:
To the average American, Protestant Charismatic Christianity is that which is broadcast daily by the Televangelists such as Joel Osteen and Benny Hinn. The radio preachers are better, but by and large, the message that we see resembles more of a huge infomercial, a warped prosperity gospel, and a form of self congratulatory exclusivity.
Were Jesus to return tomorrow, would He find contemporary public Christianity to be applauded or would He see it as reprehensible?
Jon writes:
I'm not sure... How would he tell them apart from the Pharisees?
Its worth it to actually arrive at an understanding of what a Pharisee is. This topic is more concerned with what a charismatic is.
I CANT and jar disagree, but to set the record straight, they both argue that salvation is a free gift.
Yesterday, I was listening to my audio Bible and it went into the 1st Corinthians.
1 Corinthians 1:10-13 writes:
I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, I follow Paul; another, I follow Apollos; another, I follow Cephas; still another, I follow Christ.
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?
Some folks believe that Christianity is about what you believe, and other folks believe that Christianity is about what you do and who you are in the real world.
Some folks believe in the power of the Holy Spirit to change a man from within, while other folks believe that a man was given the ability to distinguish between right and wrong and has a charge and a responsibility to live and act the best way possible.
Personally, I believe that both points of view have some merit. I believe that I have a relationship with God, knowable to me through the humanity of His Son, Jesus Christ. I also believe that I have a responsibility to try and do the best that I can each day, though I am aware of the fact that I don't always do this.
Edited by Phat, : fixed quote

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Jon, posted 11-09-2011 9:29 AM Jon has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 209 of 531 (640650)
11-11-2011 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Buzsaw
07-13-2008 11:55 PM


Pentecostals & Charismatic s
Hi Buzsaw. I thought that as long as we were discussing TV/Video and Audio preachers that you might be interested in the Pentecostals & Charismatics for peace and justice. Apparently, this group of Christians supports Palestine.
They claim to want to support peace between Israel and Palestine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Buzsaw, posted 07-13-2008 11:55 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 210 of 531 (649585)
01-24-2012 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Dr Adequate
07-08-2008 1:15 PM


The spirit was strong on this one
Dr.A writes:
Not that I can see into people's souls, or anything, so I can't vouch for any of these people. However, it has always occurred to me that if a man can fool tens of thousands of people with what seem to us to be lame-ass arguments, then surely he can also fool himself by the same arguments.
Richard Roberts (Orals son) was in the news recently:Oral Roberts' son arrested on suspicion of DUI
quote:
A breath test showed Roberts' blood alcohol level at .11%, the report says
Can we not grant him the same propensity for mistakes as any other human? The only thing that bothers me is that maybe indeed Richard didn't believe what he taught.
quote:
Roberts appears on the television show "The Place for Miracles: Your Hour of Healing," according to the Oral Roberts Ministries website.
Lets see how he responds to these accusations in the coming days. If he is honest and admits his sin,and volunteers to seek help, I say God bless him. If he makes excuses...well....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-08-2008 1:15 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by jar, posted 01-24-2012 4:06 PM Phat has replied

  
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