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Author Topic:   What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 91 of 306 (638621)
10-24-2011 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by ICANT
10-24-2011 8:50 AM


Re: Single land mass
ICANT writes:
NoNukes writes:
Wrong, I could just rule out the land locked seas.
No you would have to empty them of water and put the water in one place to satisfy Genesis 1:9.
Exactly! Those changes to geography would be enough to produce an earth with multiple major continents and one body of water. What was your objection to my description of the same modification as filling in those seas with dirt? It seems you are arguing just to be difficult.
Then what was the geography in the description given in Genesis 1:9, 10?
quote:
9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
There are a number of possibilities.
The description could well describe something like earth's current geography absent any inland seas or other bodies of water. The verses might also describe earth in the condition God created it, with that form only existing termporarily before the seas flowed back over portions of the earth to produced rivers, lakes, and inland bodies of water. In fact we all seem to agree that the geography of creation was not permanent.
Or the verses might describe the arrangement you propose.
I don't need this. I'm outta here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 8:50 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 11:32 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 92 of 306 (638623)
10-24-2011 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Percy
10-22-2011 8:34 PM


Re: Single land mass
Hi Percy,
Percy writes:
quote:
Genesis 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
So when God's spirit was moving across the face of the waters they were everywhere, not just on the earth.
Are you saying that there was nothing but a big ball of water with a little ball of land in its center?
Are you saying that somewhere in that ball of water God placed a firmament which He called heaven and our birds and airplanes fly around in today?
There is water in the atmosphere now it is just not in the form that the water in the ocean is in. When it gets in the form that is in the ocean it falls to the ocean or Earth in the form of rain.
Percy writes:
He then created a firmament that divided the waters above the firmament from those below. Next he gathered the waters beneath the firmament into one place, namely the earth.
Yes He created a firmament which He called Heaven.
quote:
Genesis 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
What He called heaven and firmament is our atmosphere where birds and airplanes fly.
But no he did not gather the waters beneath the firmament into one place namely the Earth.
The Earth which is firm that can be walked upon was competely covered with water, thus it was wet land.
quote:
Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
So He gathered the water into one place and dry land appeared.
I take that to be one body of water and one body of land, whatever the shape of the land was.
Science tells us that the land mass was in one place at one time .
The Bible tells me there was one body of land in whatever configuration it was in.
Since I don't know what that configuration was I accept what Science says it was like.
My avatar is a compacted version of Pangea, with a landlocked body of water in it.
In my avatar is all the water in one place?
Percy writes:
Even if the word "seas" is actually the singular word "sea" you still have the same problem, as in, "He decided to go to sea" does not mean a single sea, it means a type of body of water. In some modern translations the word is rendered as "ocean", and when one asks, "Have you ever seen the ocean?" it doesn't mean one ocean, it means a type of body of water.
And what does that have to do with the water being in one place as stated in Genesis 1:9?
Percy writes:
You additionally have the problem that has been mentioned to you a number of times: All the oceans of the world are connected. The Atlantic/Pacific junction is at least 600 miles wide. The Pacific and Indian oceans have no junction, they just blend into each other. As Wikipedia describes it, "A continuous body of water encircling the Earth, the world (global) ocean is divided into a number of principal areas."
You still have the problem of all the landlocked bodies of water which is not connected to any other body of water.
Thus the water is not all in one place.
Percy writes:
How do you avoid this interpretation? Well, by now it's pretty easy to tell how. You just declare yourself correct despite the complete lack of evidence or ability to convince anyone.
Is all the water on the Earth today in one place? Yes/No
If 'yes' how do you connect the landlocked bodies of water throughout the world to make one body of water?
Percy writes:
And what does any of this have to do with Noah's flood? At your current rate of progress you're not going to get around to discussing Noah's flood until at least post 1000, but I've got news for you: discussion ends at post 300. Better hurry it up.
It has everything to do with Noah's flood.
To know how much water is required to cover the land mass you need to know what shape that land mass was and what the elevation of it was.
If the land mass was as my avatar minus the landlocked body of water and was 1 foot above sea level a strong wind could have flooded the entire land mass.
On the other hand the fountains of the deep could have opened up all around the land mass and the water would rise from all sides equally and the rain could have been a soft slow rain which would eliminate all the catastrophic things that are always argued about in flood threads.
When the flood argument takes place there are too many unknowns that are passed over.
Every argument I have seen so far has been that the Earth was in the same shape and elevations that it is today.
It has been discussed many times how much water it would take to cover mount Everest.
The question has been ask as to how people and animals got to the different contintents.
Real stupid questions it the land mass was in one place and at a different elevation.
That is the reason I have pretty much avoided the flood arguments until now.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Percy, posted 10-22-2011 8:34 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 93 of 306 (638632)
10-24-2011 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Percy
10-24-2011 9:10 AM


Re: Single land mass
Hi Percy,
Percy writes:
That after the six days of creation there were no inland seas. Is this just nomenclature? The Great Lakes could as easily have been called the Small Seas, and the Caspean Sea called The Great Asian Lake.
I am saying that according to the text that on the seventh day all the water on planet Earth was in one place as stated in Genesis 1:9.
Percy writes:
That after the six days of creation what we today consider the world's oceans were all connected to each other, but today they are not Are you really saying this?
I am saying according to the text there was one body of water as it was all collected to one place.
The Earth (dry land of Genesis 1:10) was divided in the days of Peleg to our present configuration.
Today there are many bodies of water.
You did not answer my question, "Is all the water in my avatar in one place"?
Percy writes:
Now you're saying something different. Earlier you were saying there were no inland seas. Now you're saying there were no landlocked bodies of water? Really? No lakes or ponds?
I have continually said that there was one (singular) body of water
according to Genesis 1:9 on planet Earth prior to the flood of Noah.
Percy writes:
All the world's oceans are interconnected. They are not isolated bodies of water. The Black Sea, the Mediterranean Sea, the Caspian Sea, the Aral Sea, these are all isolated bodies of water. The world's oceans? No.
If I understand you, you are saying that there are many bodies of water today.
But Genesis 1:9 says the water was gathered to one (singular) place.
Percy writes:
The "all in one place" in Genesis refers to the waters beneath the firmament, these waters evidently being spread everywhere beneath the firmament, being gathered together onto the Earth's surface.
Are you suggesting that the water was floating around in space and was then gathered onto a ball of dirt called Earth with a land mass sticking out of it?
Percy writes:
When are you going to get to the flood?
Just as soon as we can figure out what it was that was flooded.
According to the text of Genesis 1:9, 10 all the water was in one place leaving one land mass protruding out of the water.
Since in this thread we are discussing what the KJV Bible, LXX, and Hebrew text says about the flood we should be able to use what the same text says about the geography of the Earth at that time.
Since there is no text that says there was a change in the water being in one place with dry land protruding from it until after the flood it should be apparant that at the time of the flood all the water was in one place with dry land protuding from it.
So if it could be agreed that the text says all the water was in one place with dry land protruding from it we could move on to other details.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Percy, posted 10-24-2011 9:10 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-24-2011 11:35 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 105 by Percy, posted 10-24-2011 6:22 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 94 of 306 (638635)
10-24-2011 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by NoNukes
10-24-2011 9:39 AM


Re: Single land mass
Hi NoNukes,
NoNukes writes:
It seems you are arguing just to be difficult.
I argue to be specific.
Either the water was all in one place or it was in more than one place.
NoNukes writes:
There are a number of possibilities.
The description could well describe something like earth's current geography absent any inland seas or other bodies of water.
That is a possibility with the inland seas and bodies of water being left after the flood.
But then the statement that the earth was divided in Genesis 10:25 would be out of place and unnecessary.
NoNukes writes:
The verses might also describe earth in the condition God created it,
Well no because when God created the heavens and the Earth in Genesis 1:1 it had no seas.
NoNukes writes:
with that form only existing termporarily before the seas flowed back over portions of the earth to produced rivers, lakes, and inland bodies of water.
The created Earth was competely covered in water somewhere between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, as that is the way it is described in 1:2.
NoNukes writes:
In fact we all seem to agree that the geography of creation was not permanent.
Yes I can agree with that.
NoNukes writes:
Or the verses might describe the arrangement you propose.
Glad to see that my avatar minus the landlocked body of water could be a picture of what the Earth looked like in Genesis 1:10.
You did not answer my question if all the water in my avatar was in one place or not.
NoNukes writes:
I don't need this. I'm outta here.
So anything that goes against what you believe and have been taught is to be ignored or ran away from.
Wouldn't it be better to question everything rather than just a few things that you don't believe?
But it is your choice.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by NoNukes, posted 10-24-2011 9:39 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 95 of 306 (638636)
10-24-2011 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by ICANT
10-24-2011 11:07 AM


Chronology
Can you break down the events in chronological order for us? And include the passages?
Like:
Beginning: god creates earth (gen 1:1)
Then all the adam and eve stuff, can and able and all that (Gen 2 - ?)
We get to Noah, and the flood (gen 7...)
This is where all the water is gathered in one place (Gen 1:9 or whatever)
It looks like Pangea
Then its devided in the days of Peleg (Gen 10:?)
And then we get to all the other stuff in Gen 1?
Am I close?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 11:07 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 12:22 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 96 of 306 (638637)
10-24-2011 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Panda
10-24-2011 9:06 AM


Re: Single land mass
Hi Panda,
Panda writes:
This is not a science thread.
What science says about a global flood is off-topic.
What science says about the geography of the Earth is not off topic in this thread.
Asking for scientific evidence to support a position in this thread is off topic.
So the Bible and Science agreeing that at one time all the land mass was in one place is just verification that the Bible is correct about that event.
Panda writes:
So - the KJV does NOT state that there was a Pangaea-like land mass.
Nope, all it says that the water was collected to one place and dry land protruded up out of the water.
Panda writes:
It could have been any kind of shape, as long as there was no land-locked water.
The text does not describe the shape of the dry land.
It just states that dry land appeared when the water was collected to one place.
Anything else is left up to imagination or what Science tells us.
I choose to go with what Science tells us about the land being in one place at one time, which would have caused the water to be in one place.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Panda, posted 10-24-2011 9:06 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Panda, posted 10-24-2011 12:20 PM ICANT has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 97 of 306 (638640)
10-24-2011 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by ICANT
10-24-2011 11:42 AM


Re: Single land mass
ICANT writes:
What science says about the geography of the Earth is not off topic in this thread.
So, if science says that there was no global flood, that would not be off-topic?
And anyway, I thought this thread was about what the bible says about the flood - and not what science says.
ICANT writes:
So the Bible and Science agreeing that at one time all the land mass was in one place is just verification that the Bible is correct about that event.
No, it is not verification: it is cherry picking. It is confirmation bias.
ICANT writes:
The text does not describe the shape of the dry land.
It just states that dry land appeared when the water was collected to one place.
Anything else is left up to imagination or what Science tells us.
...but only if science agrees with the bible.
But why mention science anyway?
Doesn't the bible contain all the information we need?
ICANT writes:
I choose to go with what Science tells us about the land being in one place at one time, which would have caused the water to be in one place.
Science doesn't say that all the water was in one place though.
But this thread is about "What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood" and not "What science says about the Noah flood".
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 11:42 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 12:44 PM Panda has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 98 of 306 (638641)
10-24-2011 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by New Cat's Eye
10-24-2011 11:35 AM


Re: Chronology
Hi CS,
Catholic Scientist writes:
Can you break down the events in chronological order for us? And include the passages?
Like:
Beginning: god creates earth (gen 1:1)
Then all the adam and eve stuff, can and able and all that (Gen 2 - ?)
We get to Noah, and the flood (gen 7...)
This is where all the water is gathered in one place (Gen 1:9 or whatever)
It looks like Pangea
Then its devided in the days of Peleg (Gen 10:?)
And then we get to all the other stuff in Gen 1?
Am I close?
Close. But the last one has already taken place.
1.  In the Beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth. Genesis
    1:1.
2.  The history of Genesis 1:1 is given in Genesis 2:4 through
    Genesis 4:25.
3.  The seven days of Moses is recorded in Genesis 1:2 throuth
    Genesis 2:3.
4.  About 1700 years pass and man is wicked and God decides to
    remove them from among the living, but Noah found grace in the
    eyes of God. Genesis 6:8
5.  At this time all the water is still gathered into one place as it was
    in Genesis 1:9, 10 with the dry land protruding out of the water.
6.  The people as they move eastward decide to build a tower to
    heaven so they will not be scattered abroad over the face of the
    Earth.  Genesis 11:4.
7.  At this time the people all spoke one language. Genesis 11:6.
8.  God scattered the people over the face of the Earth (dry land of
    Genesis 1:9). Genesis 11:8.
9.  Peleg was born about 100 years after the flood and lived for
    239 years, during which time the Earth was divided.  Genesis
    10:25. 
I hope this is what you was asking for.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-24-2011 11:35 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-24-2011 3:44 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 99 of 306 (638645)
10-24-2011 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Panda
10-24-2011 12:20 PM


Re: Single land mass
Hi Panda,
Panda writes:
So, if science says that there was no global flood, that would not be off-topic?
Science can only say what it says.
Scientist on the other hand can say science says anything that suits their fancy or biases.
Panda writes:
No, it is not verification: it is cherry picking. It is confirmation bias.
Makes no difference what you say it is, they both agree that at one time there was one land mass.
Panda writes:
Doesn't the bible contain all the information we need?
Concerning spiritual things and man's relations with man yes.
But there are many things that are not covered in the Scriptures.
It doesn't give a full detailed explanation of how everything began to exist.
But it does a better job that Science.
Panda writes:
Science doesn't say that all the water was in one place though.
But if all the land was in one place at one time that would leave all the water in one place.
Panda writes:
But this thread is about "What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood" and not "What science says about the Noah flood".
You mean they can't agree on events that have happened in the past?
I say they can and do and science does not disprove nor can it disprove a flood.
That is the reason for determining exactly what the KJV, LXX, and Hebrew text says about the Earth at the time of the flood.
If the Earth was as I present it and a flood took place and the Earth was then divided there would be no evidence left behind that could be found to support a world wide flood. There would be evidence of a flood in all of the land mass that was above water at that time but the land mass that was under the water that was in one place would have different evidence and some that protruded up through the land that was at the bottom of the water would have something different.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Panda, posted 10-24-2011 12:20 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Panda, posted 10-24-2011 1:08 PM ICANT has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 100 of 306 (638651)
10-24-2011 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by ICANT
10-24-2011 12:44 PM


Re: Single land mass
ICANT writes:
Science can only say what it says.
Scientist on the other hand can say science says anything that suits their fancy or biases.
Fine.
Science says there was no global flood.
ICANT writes:
Makes no difference what you say it is, they both agree that at one time there was one land mass.
Yes. That is what happens when you cherry pick information.
You can take information out-of-context and you can make it say anything you want.
ICANT writes:
But if all the land was in one place at one time that would leave all the water in one place.
No. Look at your avatar: all the land is in one place - but the water is not. QED.
ICANT writes:
Panda writes:
But this thread is about "What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood" and not "What science says about the Noah flood".
You mean they can't agree on events that have happened in the past?
No, I mean this thread is about "What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood" and not "What science says about the Noah flood".
As the OP, do you not know this?
ICANT writes:
I say they can and do and science does not disprove nor can it disprove a flood.
As you know very little about science, I'll give your opinion the value it deserves.
ICANT writes:
That is the reason for determining exactly what the KJV, LXX, and Hebrew text says about the Earth at the time of the flood.
It is a shame that you keep going on about what science says then.
ICANT writes:
If the Earth was as I present it and a flood took place and the Earth was then divided there would be no evidence left behind that could be found to support a world wide flood. There would be evidence of a flood in all of the land mass that was above water at that time but the land mass that was under the water that was in one place would have different evidence and some that protruded up through the land that was at the bottom of the water would have something different.
But this thread is about "What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood" and not "What ICANT imagines about the Noah flood".
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 12:44 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 2:11 PM Panda has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 101 of 306 (638653)
10-24-2011 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Panda
10-24-2011 1:08 PM


Re: Single land mass
Hi Panda,
Panda writes:
Science says there was no global flood.
Well no.
Scientist and others say Science says there was no global flood.
But without knowing the geography of the Earth at the time of the flood no conclusion can be reached.
Panda writes:
You can take information out-of-context and you can make it say anything you want.
So which piece of information was taken out of context.
Pangea existed. Water in one place and dry land in one place.
Bible says water in one place leaving dry land in one place.
Panda writes:
No. Look at your avatar: all the land is in one place - but the water is not. QED.
But that water was added to my avatar today so I could ask the question, "is all the water in my avatar in the same place"?
So thanks for confirming that the water in my avatar is not all in one place.
Panda writes:
No, I mean this thread is about "What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood" and not "What science says about the Noah flood".
As the OP, do you not know this?
I have presented what the KJV Bible say about the events I have described so far as well as the confirmation that Science has given in the past to the land mass being in one place at one time requiring all the water to be in one place at one time.
And if we keep stumbling around on determining the geography of the Earth at the time of the Noah flood we will never get to any specific details about the flood.
If we do not know what the Earth was like when the flood took place there is no way of determining what happened.
Panda writes:
As you know very little about science, I'll give your opinion the value it deserves.
Once it is determined what the geography was when the flood took place then we can discuss any information Biblical or Scientific as to whether the flood took place or not.
But to say Science disproves the flood without knowing what the Earth's geography was at the time of the flood is asinine.
Panda writes:
But this thread is about "What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood" and not "What ICANT imagines about the Noah flood".
Lets examine what the KJV Bible says:
quote:
Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Does that say all the water under heaven was gathered to one place?
Does that say dry land appeared?
quote:
Genesis 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Does that say God called the dry land Earth?
quote:
Genesis 7:17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
Does this say there was a flood upon the Earth?
quote:
Genesis 10:25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.
Does that say in the days of Peleg the Earth was divided?
quote:
Genesis10:32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.
Does this say the families of the sons of Noah were divided in the Earth after the flood?
The very next verse in the text says:
quote:
Genesis 11:1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
Does this say there was one language?
quote:
Genesis 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
Does this say they were scattered upon the face of 'ALL' the Earth?
If you answer yes or no to all of these makes no difference because this is direct quotes from the text you or anyone else can read for themselves.
So this is not what ICANT imagines the text says but exactly what the text says.
Now we can get into my imaginations after we can conclude what the geography of the Earth was at the time of the Noah flood if a conclusion can ever be reached.
If everyone here wants to declare that the Earth was just like it is today then there is no way to have a discussion.
That is not what the KJV Bible, LXX, and Hebrew texts say the Earth looked like. It has all the water in one place and dry protruding out of the water.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Panda, posted 10-24-2011 1:08 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Panda, posted 10-24-2011 5:22 PM ICANT has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 102 of 306 (638657)
10-24-2011 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by ICANT
10-24-2011 12:22 PM


Re: Chronology
I hope this is what you was asking for.
Yes, thank you.
2. The history of Genesis 1:1 is given in Genesis 2:4 through Genesis 4:25.
What do you make of Genesis 4:26?
quote:
25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.
Which ties directly to Gen 5:1-6
quote:
1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
5And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
6And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:
Gen 5 is talking about the day that god made man in his image, which would be during the seven days of Moses, right? But that contradicts the history of Gen 1:1 if you don't remove Gen 4:26 from it. Is that why you don't include it? Because it messes up your story?
4. About 1700 years pass and man is wicked and God decides to remove them from among the living, but Noah found grace in the eyes of God. Genesis 6:8
Noah came from Lamech, who came from Methuselah, who came from Enoch, who came from Jared, who came from Mahalaleel, who came from Cainan, who came from Enos, who came from Seth, who came from Adam. Gen 4:25 says that Adam had Seth because Cain killed Abel. But according to your story, those are seperate peoples', one in the history of Gen 1:1 and one from the seven days of Moses.
What do you make of this contradiction?
5. At this time all the water is still gathered into one place as it was in Genesis 1:9, 10 with the dry land protruding out of the water.
So the Noahic flood happened during the seven days of Moses? And that's what caused the state of the earth in Gen 1:2?
And then all the rest of Genesis also happened during those seven days? All the way through to Abraham and all that?
ABE:
From Message 101:
Scientist and others say Science says there was no global flood.
But without knowing the geography of the Earth at the time of the flood no conclusion can be reached.
The earth has never been covered in water since humans existed. That's a scientific fact that contradicts the flood story.
Pangea existed. Water in one place and dry land in one place.
Are you claiming there was no inland water on Pangea?
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 12:22 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 6:05 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 103 of 306 (638663)
10-24-2011 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by ICANT
10-24-2011 2:11 PM


Re: Single land mass
ICANT writes:
Scientist and others say Science says there was no global flood.
But without knowing the geography of the Earth at the time of the flood no conclusion can be reached.
Wrong. I don't need to know how someone was murdered to find evidence of it happening - so why would a global flood be any different?
ICANT writes:
So which piece of information was taken out of context.
If you click on the links at the bottom of this post you can follow the conversation backwards and read what you have written.
Personally, I prefer to remember what I have said and what I am discussing.
But to help you with your poor memory: "The problem is that Science tells us the land mass was all in one place at one time, as the Bible tells us there was one land mass at one time."
This is particularly ironic since your avatar shows that there is no need for there to be one land mass.
ICANT writes:
But that water was added to my avatar today so I could ask the question, "is all the water in my avatar in the same place"?
So thanks for confirming that the water in my avatar is not all in one place.
But you have forgotten what you are talking about again.
Here it is for you:
Panda writes:
ICANT writes:
But if all the land was in one place at one time that would leave all the water in one place.
No. Look at your avatar: all the land is in one place - but the water is not. QED.
So - no.
The fact that the water in your avatar is not 'all in one place' while the land clearly is 'all in one place' disproves your claim.
Your own evidence has proved you wrong.
ICANT writes:
I have presented what the KJV Bible say about the events I have described so far as well as the confirmation that Science has given in the past to the land mass being in one place at one time requiring all the water to be in one place at one time.
And if we keep stumbling around on determining the geography of the Earth at the time of the Noah flood we will never get to any specific details about the flood.
If we do not know what the Earth was like when the flood took place there is no way of determining what happened.
The science doesn't agree with you.
So, if you don't feel there is enough evidence in the bible to know what happened, then I suggest that you stop making unsupported claims.
ICANT writes:
Once it is determined what the geography was when the flood took place then we can discuss any information Biblical or Scientific as to whether the flood took place or not.
But to say Science disproves the flood without knowing what the Earth's geography was at the time of the flood is asinine.
And I repeat: when something happens in the past: it leaves evidence.
Your mantra of "We need to know the geography before we can know if it happened" is not an argument that has any merit.
It is patently wrong.
ICANT writes:
Does that say all the water under heaven was gathered to one place?
Does it say that the land was all in one place?
No.
ICANT writes:
So this is not what ICANT imagines the text says but exactly what the text says.
Since it doesn't say that all the land was in one place, then it must have been imagined by you.
ICANT writes:
If everyone here wants to declare that the Earth was just like it is today then there is no way to have a discussion.
Have you decided on when it happened yet?
4500 years ago?
250 million years ago?
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : tweaks for clarity

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 2:11 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 10:08 PM Panda has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 104 of 306 (638669)
10-24-2011 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by New Cat's Eye
10-24-2011 3:44 PM


Re: Chronology
Hi CS,
We been down that rabbit hole and if you want to discuss it again take your post and start a thread and we will discuss it.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-24-2011 3:44 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-24-2011 7:11 PM ICANT has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 105 of 306 (638672)
10-24-2011 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by ICANT
10-24-2011 11:07 AM


Re: Single land mass
ICANT writes:
Percy writes:
That after the six days of creation there were no inland seas. Is this just nomenclature? The Great Lakes could as easily have been called the Small Seas, and the Caspean Sea called The Great Asian Lake.
I am saying that according to the text that on the seventh day all the water on planet Earth was in one place as stated in Genesis 1:9.
Does that mean there were no inland seas, lakes or ponds? There does appear to be an inland sea in your avatar.
You still have the same problems. In the beginning the waters were apparently everywhere. God created a firmament separating the water above from the water below. The water below is not yet all on the earth. There's water on the same side of the firmament as the earth, but it is not yet all on the earth. When God said to let the waters gather to one place he meant the earth instead of all over the place around the earth.
The other problem is that there is still one global ocean on the earth. It is separated into different regions. These oceanic regions all meet across broad areas and their waters flow freely between one another.
Or at least this is one interpretation. How do you exclude this interpretation?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 11:07 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2011 10:27 PM Percy has replied

  
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