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Author Topic:   What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 136 of 306 (638783)
10-25-2011 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by ICANT
10-25-2011 5:12 PM


Re: Single land mass
There are 6 bodies of water called seas that are land locked that means there is no outlet to the oceans.
Those are 6 individual places that water is and is not connected to any other ocean or sea.
Okay, so lets imagine that there are no lakes or inland seas or rivers, just the oceans surrounding the continents, the oceans being contiguous and the continents having no inland bodies of water at all.
Would that still qualify as "in one place?"

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 Message 135 by ICANT, posted 10-25-2011 5:12 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 137 of 306 (638788)
10-25-2011 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by ICANT
10-25-2011 5:12 PM


Re: Single land mass
There are 6 bodies of water called seas that are land locked that means there is no outlet to the oceans.
Those are 6 individual places that water is and is not connected to any other ocean or sea.
Can you show that Pangea did not have any of these types of seas?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by ICANT, posted 10-25-2011 5:12 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 138 of 306 (638807)
10-26-2011 4:01 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by ICANT
10-25-2011 5:12 PM


Re: Single land mass
ICANT writes:
Those are 6 individual places that water is and is not connected to any other ocean or sea.
Not sure what you're trying to say here, but that's okay.
Your most fundamental problem is that gathering the waters together into one place has more than one interpretation. "One place" could mean that the water filling the entire region beneath the firmament was placed on the earth, or it could mean this water was placed in a single continuous region on the earth. Obviously the former makes more sense.
But let's say we accept your interpretation that "one place" means all water was gathered together into a single ocean. A single continuous body of water surrounding a single continent such as you imagine is consistent with this interpretation, but so is a single continuous body of water surrounding two continents, or three continents, or four continents, or even seven continents like we have today. It's also consistent with a single continuous body of water with thousands of tiny islands.
You're not really just accepting what the text says. What you're really doing is combining what you'd like the text to say with our scientific evidence for a single continent 250 million years ago that we refer to as Pangaea.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by ICANT, posted 10-25-2011 5:12 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 139 of 306 (638815)
10-26-2011 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by Percy
10-26-2011 4:01 AM


Re: Single land mass
Actually, he is asserting far more than just that.
He is taking one verse from Genesis 1 and one verse from Genesis 10 and asserting that those two verses show that from the beginning there was just one land mass.
Of course that is simply quote mining and if you look at the two unrelated tales in context it is obvious that Genesis 1 and Genesis 10 are totally separate, unrelated tales and that Genesis 10 is not talking about a continent splitting apart but rather the origin of the various peoples and tribes in the Fertile Crescent.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Percy, posted 10-26-2011 4:01 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 140 of 306 (638817)
10-26-2011 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by ICANT
10-25-2011 5:07 PM


Re: Chronology
But one island would be called land, two islands would be called lands.
That's retarded.
You should know this: your posts read as if they lack any sincerity at all.
Then why are you saying I put the flood between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2?
I thought that's where you put it... that the Flood is how the earth go to the state that it was in during Gen 1:2. But if not, then I was wrong. Its not as if your story makes any sense, or is easy to follow. It jumps all over the place.
Catholic Scientist writes:
Humans have been around for a couple hundred thousand years.
I think you are off by a few trillion years or more.
Humans are the apes that evolved here on Earth over the last coupla hundred thousand years. Pfft, trillions of years...
Why would there be a bottleneck?
In Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
God created mankind male and female created He them.
It don't say how many he created just that he created mankind male and female.
There may have been a thousand.
Yeah, or they're may have been two seperately created Earths. You're just inserting your pre-conceived notions into the text. Its the same old game you always play: obfuscate the facts into meaninglessness so you can claim 'see, you can't prove me wrong'. You're strategy here, to avoid having your personal Flood theory refuted, is to hide it away in an untouchable place so that you cannot be presented any evidence against it. That's pathetic.
But as anyone can see, you're whole story has already been refuted by the geneology of the characters being contradictory when placed in the order you place them in. So you're already wrong from the get go.
No the picture you have is after you have moved the animation bar to start the animation.
Before you moved the animation bar to start the breakup there was no water, as anyone can see.
Yeah, its inconsistant. All the shapes of the lanlocked water are there, but they're just colored yellow instead of blue, once you start the animation, though, they are blue.
The third one does have one body of land locked water
Yeah, well, you know what: Its showing Lake Victoria, and that didn't form until about 400,000 years ago, so there's no way that it could have been on pangea... My point is that cartoons of pangea cannot be used to show that there was no landlocked water in it.
This is ridiculous.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by ICANT, posted 10-25-2011 5:07 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by ICANT, posted 10-26-2011 5:50 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 141 of 306 (638876)
10-26-2011 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Percy
10-26-2011 4:01 AM


Re: Single land mass
Hi Percy,
PercyYou're not really just accepting what the text says.
Then show me the verses say something other than I say they say.
Percy writes:
What you're really doing is combining what you'd like the text to say with our scientific evidence for a single continent 250 million years ago that we refer to as Pangaea.
No I am saying the Bible says the same thing about the Earth that Scientist have said.
The land was in one place. Pangea
The water was in one place Pangea. 1 super ocean.
quote:
Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Water gathered together in one place.
Dry land called earth protruding out of the water.
Another verse supporting one land mass.
quote:
Genesis 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
The same Hebrew word ארץ is translated Earth in Genesis 1:10 and 11:8.
So the dry land in 1:10 is the same piece of dry land the people were scattered abroad over the face of all the earth.
The people were scattered all over the Earth.
If all the land mass was not connected they would need boats to go to any other island. How would they know the island was there?
Why would any of those folks build a boat and set out in the ocean looking for another piece of dry land just because they could not understand what a lot of the people were saying. There was plenty of land to go around. So they just moved to a different location.
Just like the animals did after the flood.
But I reckon we could insert a little magic and God could have picked them up and put them on all the different land masses everyone here is telling me existed.
The problem is the text does not say that.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Percy, posted 10-26-2011 4:01 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Rahvin, posted 10-26-2011 4:45 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied
 Message 143 by jar, posted 10-26-2011 5:15 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 144 by Trixie, posted 10-26-2011 5:23 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 149 by Percy, posted 10-26-2011 7:00 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 142 of 306 (638877)
10-26-2011 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by ICANT
10-26-2011 4:40 PM


Re: Single land mass
Then show me the verses say something other than I say they say.
The verses you quoted have already been shown to have multiple possible meanings.
Why do you believe that your interpretation is more likely to accurately reflect the original author's intent than other interpretations?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by ICANT, posted 10-26-2011 4:40 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 143 of 306 (638882)
10-26-2011 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by ICANT
10-26-2011 4:40 PM


Re: Single land mass
Of course Genesis 11 is directly refuted by Genesis 10 and is another of the many contradictions found when you try to stitch the Bible together as though it was one continuing story.
Genesis 10 says:
quote:
5By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.
so there we see that there is not one language and that the term lands does not mean one continent or land mass but rather "lands controlled by one tribe or people" and that the languages. "tongue" varied by location.
The Genesis 11 says:
quote:
1And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
That should be a clue that we are dealing with totally separate stories from totally different traditions and that there is no way to even pretend they are one story or related to the Biblical Flood Myths.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by ICANT, posted 10-26-2011 4:40 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Trixie
Member (Idle past 3705 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004


Message 144 of 306 (638883)
10-26-2011 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by ICANT
10-26-2011 4:40 PM


Re: Single land mass
Al it says is that God gathered the water dry land appeared and that he called said dry land Earth. It doesn't say he did anything with the land at all. It also says that God scattered them (the people). It makes no mention of the people scattering themselves.
I thought the point of this thread was to examine what the texts actually say, not what they might mean.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by ICANT, posted 10-26-2011 4:40 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by ICANT, posted 10-26-2011 6:56 PM Trixie has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 145 of 306 (638887)
10-26-2011 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by New Cat's Eye
10-26-2011 10:30 AM


Re: Chronology
Hi CS,
Catholic Scientist writes:
But one island would be called land, two islands would be called lands.
That's retarded.
I lived in the Cayman Islands for 15 years I did not live in the Cayman Island.
I lived on Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands.
To get to Little Cayman I had to fly, go by boat or swim the 75 miles.
From Little Cayman to Cayman Brac was a little easier they were only a little over 3 miles apart with the water over 2000 feet deep between them.
They are all part of the Cayman ridge. But they are 3 separate pieces of dry land and any one is refered to as Island but all 3 are refered to as the Cayman Islands. Plural more than one.
Catholic Scientist writes:
I thought that's where you put it... that the Flood is how the earth go to the state that it was in during Gen 1:2. But if not, then I was wrong. Its not as if your story makes any sense, or is easy to follow. It jumps all over the place.
If you had bothered to read Message 98 which you responded to by in Message 102 saying:
quote:
Yes, thank you.
You then left that and ask an unrelated question about Genesis 4:25.
Here is what you asked for and apparantly did not read but thanked me for producing it.
quote:
1. In the Beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth. Genesis
   1:1.
2. The history of Genesis 1:1 is given in Genesis 2:4 through
   Genesis 4:25.
3. The seven days of Moses is recorded in Genesis 1:2 throuth
   Genesis 2:3.
4. About 1700 years pass and man is wicked and God decides to
   remove them from among the living, but Noah found grace in the
   eyes of God. Genesis 6:8
5. At this time all the water is still gathered into one place as it was
   in Genesis 1:9, 10 with the dry land protruding out of the water.
6. The people as they move eastward decide to build a tower to
   heaven so they will not be scattered abroad over the face of the
   Earth. Genesis 11:4.
7. At this time the people all spoke one language. Genesis 11:6.
8. God scattered the people over the face of the Earth (dry land of
   Genesis 1:9). Genesis 11:8.
9. Peleg was born about 100 years after the flood and lived for
   239 years, during which time the Earth was divided. Genesis
   10:25. 
I hope this is what you was asking for.
Pay close attention to #4, whiich follows # 3.
Catholic Scientist writes:
Yeah, its inconsistant. All the shapes of the lanlocked water are there, but they're just colored yellow instead of blue, once you start the animation, though, they are blue.
But when the animation starts the land has divided the moment you move the bar.
Catholic Scientist writes:
Yeah, well, you know what: Its showing Lake Victoria, and that didn't form until about 400,000 years ago, so there's no way that it could have been on pangea... My point is that cartoons of pangea cannot be used to show that there was no landlocked water in it.
This is ridiculous.
Why not use a cartoon of pangea all the rest are the imagination of some man as nobody was there to record it.
Just as there was no one there in Genesis 1:9, 10.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-26-2011 10:30 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Rahvin, posted 10-26-2011 6:15 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 146 of 306 (638889)
10-26-2011 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by ICANT
10-26-2011 5:50 PM


Re: Chronology
I lived in the Cayman Islands for 15 years I did not live in the Cayman Island.
I lived on Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands.
And yet, curiously, you've always lived on land.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by ICANT, posted 10-26-2011 5:50 PM ICANT has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 147 of 306 (638890)
10-26-2011 6:49 PM


Meaning of the word "land" (singular)
Apparently this single four letter word is not being given its due by a small percentage of the participants of this thread. Let me cite a few definitions. Note that the word land may have other definitions, but these preferred definitions are the ones most people are correctly referring to in this thread.
From Dictionary.com
quote:
noun
1. any part of the earth's surface not covered by a body of water; the part of the earth's surface occupied by continents and islands: Land was sighted from the crow's nest.
Oxford online dictionary
quote:
the part of the earth’s surface that is not covered by water, as opposed to the sea or the air:
the reptiles lay their eggs on land
after four weeks at sea we sighted land

Cambridge online American English dictionary
quote:
the surface of the earth that is not covered by water:
Merriam-Webster
quote:
1.
a : the solid part of the surface of the earth; also : a corresponding part of a celestial body (as the moon)
b : ground or soil of a specified situation, nature, or quality
c : the surface of the earth and all its natural resources
American Heritage Dictionary
quote:
1. The solid ground of the earth.
Just for grins, here is an American Heritage Dictionary definition for the word earth.
quote:
1.a The land surface of the world.
My personal impression is that none of the participants in this thread are unaware of the use of the word land to collectively refer to all of the earth's non-wet surface in exactly the way illustrated above. Further, all participants are likely aware that words like island are not so used.
If your argument depends on any of the above definitions being either wrong or disfavored, then you should not be surprised when your argument is not found to be either logically inevitable or convincing. You probably shouldn't be surprised if continuing in this vein causes you to be thought foolish if not dishonest. That's certainly the impression that's being made on me.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 148 of 306 (638891)
10-26-2011 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Trixie
10-26-2011 5:23 PM


Re: Single land mass
Hi Trixie,
Trixie writes:
Al it says is that God gathered the water dry land appeared and that he called said dry land Earth
Did He say the water was to gather to one place?
quote:
1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Does the underlined/bold say waters gathered together unto one place? Yes/No
Does the underlined/bold say let the dry land appear? Yes/No
Does that mean the water gathered to one place causing dry land to appear which God called Earth?
quote:
Genesis 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
Does that say God confounded their language? Yes/No
quote:
11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
You already said God scattered them.
But does the verse say upon the face of all the Earth? Yes/No
If no, how many faces did it have?
Does the verse say THEY LEFT OFF TO BUILD THE CITY? Yes/No
If God had taken them by magic and place them in different places on the face of the Earth, How did they leave of the building of the city?
Trixie writes:
I thought the point of this thread was to examine what the texts actually say, not what they might mean.
If you answer no to any of the questions above you are in disagreement with me.
Present what the text says.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Trixie, posted 10-26-2011 5:23 PM Trixie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Rahvin, posted 10-26-2011 7:12 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 151 by Trixie, posted 10-26-2011 7:29 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 153 by AdminPD, posted 10-27-2011 3:10 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 155 by DWIII, posted 10-27-2011 9:36 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 156 by Percy, posted 10-28-2011 7:32 AM ICANT has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 149 of 306 (638892)
10-26-2011 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by ICANT
10-26-2011 4:40 PM


Re: Single land mass
Wow! Unbelievable. No further comment.
You've wasted the first half of the thread arguing about Genesis 1 and have only about half the thread left to tell us what the KJV Bible says about Noah's flood, better get to it.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by ICANT, posted 10-26-2011 4:40 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 150 of 306 (638894)
10-26-2011 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by ICANT
10-26-2011 6:56 PM


Re: Single land mass
1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Your claim is that this passage specifically means that all dry land must have also been in one place, and that no other meaning is possible.
Yet the passage does not specify that the dry land was all in one place.
Your claim requires the Bible to be more specific than the text actually is. The text very plainly leaves open multiple geological possibilities, simply because it doesn't specify anything about dry land other than that it existed.
If I say "33% of the Earth is covered in dry land," I've used similar terminology to the Biblical passage...and yet the wording equally well describes Pangaea or the seven continents we see today or any number of other possible configurations.
Your claim simply isn't supported in the text, ICANT.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by ICANT, posted 10-26-2011 6:56 PM ICANT has not replied

  
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