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Author Topic:   What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 166 of 306 (639277)
10-29-2011 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by ICANT
10-29-2011 8:46 PM


Re: Single land mass
ICANT writes:
The text teaches that the land mass whatever shape it was in in Genesis 1:10 when He called it Earth was covered by water that fell in the form of rain and water that came from the fountains of the deep. That water covered the highest land mass by 15 meters.
Show where the text says what you say in the quote above?
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by ICANT, posted 10-29-2011 8:46 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by ICANT, posted 10-29-2011 11:15 PM jar has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 167 of 306 (639284)
10-29-2011 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by jar
10-29-2011 8:50 PM


Re: Single land mass
Hi jar,
jar writes:
Show where the text says what you say in the quote above?
If you could read and not cherry pick what you want to fuss about you would have understood that I was talking about the land mass at the time of Noah's flood as that land mass was in the same configuration as it was in Genesis 1:10.
Here is the entire quote you quote mined to get your statement you could refute.
quote:
I don't have a problem with what God can do.
He could have caused the dry land to become wet land again just as easily as He caused the water to gather together in one place and allow the dry land to appear. But the text does not say He did it that way.
The land mass at the time of the flood could have been as it is today with Mt Everest to be covered and God would have had no problem covering it with water. He could have raised the sea bottom and flooded the mountain tops, or He could have caused the dry land to become wet land again but the text does not say that.
The text teaches that the land mass whatever shape it was in in Genesis 1:10 when He called it Earth was covered by water that fell in the form of rain and water that came from the fountains of the deep. That water covered the highest land mass by 15 meters.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by jar, posted 10-29-2011 8:50 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by jar, posted 10-30-2011 6:48 AM ICANT has replied

  
Trixie
Member (Idle past 3706 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004


Message 168 of 306 (639300)
10-30-2011 6:46 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by ICANT
10-29-2011 8:38 PM


Re: Single land mass
Wow...just wow!
ICANT writes:
I even believe there was people on Earth prior to Genesis 1:2. In fact according to the text man was the first lifeform on planet Earth
The only thing we have, prior to Gen 1:2, in the texts is Gen 1:1
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth
which is a one sentence summary of what is about to happen.
Prior to verse 3 there was no light (verse 3), no heaven (verse 6), no dry land (verse 9), no plants (verse 11), no water creaures and birds (verse 20/21), no land creatures (verse 24/25) no man (verse 26/27).
Are you claiming that plants, whales, birds, cattle etc aren't life forms? Or are you cherry picking and going by Genesis 2
18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Even doing that you still have the problem of the plant life forms since it says earlier on
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
So again we have plants before man.
Anyway, enough of creation, we're supposed to be discussing the flood and what the texts say about that.
ICANT writes:
Magic words thought to have broken up 175 million years ago.
There are a lot of things that are thought to be.
Lets see that number is arrived at by assuming that the rate the continents are moving at today has always been the rate of movement.
Nope! That dating is based on similar geological makeup of the continents prior to that date and differences after that date. It's based on the age of the igneus rock found on either side of the mid Atlantic ridge. A geologist can chime in here and explain it all much better than me. You really need to take on board what scientists mean when they use the phrase "thought to be". I'll give you a hint, it means that the evidence supports it.
You say there are many assumptions made about the flood. You began this thread to dispel those assumptions and to tell us all exactly what the texts tell us, yet I've seen more unfounded assumptions from you than any other poster here. For example
ICANT writes:
Then again it could have been moved instantly and just has not competely stopped yet.
I'm sure Peleg and pals would have noticed this and the event would have deserved more than a passing nod.
You're just making stuff up to fill in the gaps which are being exposed, yet you have NO textual support for what you imagine. You have man wandering around on a supercontinent which didn't even exist by the time man first appeared yet you claim there are no discrepancies. You base all of these pet fantasies on your own personal beliefs and not on what the texts actually say, but all you're doing is addng in even more difficulties for yourself. For example you now seem to have man created before there was even any dry land. Where did God find the dust to make him from?
This discussion has moved from science -v- biblical story to become science and biblical story -v- ICANT's pet theory.
If your entire belief in the flood scenario rests on these ridiculous mental and textual gymnastics, it says more about belief problems you have with the texts as they stand.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by ICANT, posted 10-29-2011 8:38 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by ICANT, posted 10-31-2011 12:29 PM Trixie has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 169 of 306 (639301)
10-30-2011 6:48 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by ICANT
10-29-2011 11:15 PM


Re: Single land mass
Where does the text teach " that the land mass whatever shape it was in in Genesis 1:10 when He called it Earth was covered by water that fell in the form of rain and water that came from the fountains of the deep. That water covered the highest land mass by 15 meters."
I'm sorry but so far it just seems that you are making shit up to avoid admitting that Genesis 1 does not say that the land was one mass and that none of this has anything to do with what the KJV says about the flood.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by ICANT, posted 10-29-2011 11:15 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by ICANT, posted 10-31-2011 11:52 AM jar has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 170 of 306 (639408)
10-31-2011 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by jar
10-30-2011 6:48 AM


Re: Single land mass
Hi jar,
jar writes:
Where does the text teach " that the land mass whatever shape it was in in Genesis 1:10 when He called it Earth was covered by water that fell in the form of rain and water that came from the fountains of the deep. That water covered the highest land mass by 15 meters."
Actually it does not as for some reason I used meters rather than cubits in Message 162
I did a strikethrough and added cubits for meters.
quote:
Genesis 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
But if the land mass in Genesis 1:9, 10 was all in one place at the time of the flood, the highest point was covered by 15 cubits of water.
If the land mass in Genesis 1:9, 10 was in the configuration it is today the highest point was covered by 15 cubits of water.
jar writes:
I'm sorry but so far it just seems that you are making shit up to avoid admitting that Genesis 1 does not say that the land was one mass and that none of this has anything to do with what the KJV says about the flood.
Genesis 1:9 says the water was gathered to one place and dry land appeared. Logic says if the water is in one place the land would be in one place. But since you disagree lets move further.
A verse you quoted as evidence the land mass was not in one place.
quote:
10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.
The Hebrew word אי translated isles should have been translated region, but I know you will disagree with that also.
quote:
Genesis 10:20 These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations.
The Hebrew word ארץ translated countries is the same word in Genesis 1:10 translated Earth which was the dry land that appeared in Genesis 1:9. But again you will probably disagree.
quote:
Genesis 10:25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.
The same Hebrew word ארץ tranlsted Earth here is the same word translated Earth in Genesis 1:10 that the dry land that appeared in Genesis 1:9 was called. You will probably disagree with that also.
quote:
Genesis 10:31 These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations.
The same Hebrew word ארץ tranlsted lands here is the same word translated Earth in Genesis 1:10 that the dry land that appeared in Genesis 1:9 was called. You will probably disagree with that also.
The Hebrew word גוי translated nations means people as well as nations. Due to the fact it is talking about the people, not location.
quote:
11:1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
The same Hebrew word ארץ tranlsted Earth here is the same word translated Earth in Genesis 1:10 that the dry land that appeared in Genesis 1:9 was called. You will probably disagree with that also.
quote:
11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
The same Hebrew word ארץ tranlsted Earth here is the same word translated Earth in Genesis 1:10 that the dry land that appeared in Genesis 1:9 was called. You will probably disagree with that also.
quote:
11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
The same Hebrew word ארץ tranlsted Earth here is the same word translated Earth in Genesis 1:10 that the dry land that appeared in Genesis 1:9 was called. You will probably disagree with that also.
After the flood the people were scattered abroad over the face of the Earth.
Did God just take them up and place them on different continents?
If so how did they leave off from building the city?
They were already gone if God snatched them up and placed them elsewhere.
But if they could not understand each other and simply migrated to places where there was people they could understand then God scattered them by confusing the language.
Now back to the flood.
The shape of the land mass in Genesis 1:9, 10 has directly to do with the flood as it was in the same configeration when the flood occured.
If the land mass was in one place we would not know the elevation of that land mass.
The only way we could know the elevation of the land mass in Genesis 1:9, 10 is if it was the same as it is today. This is the assumption that is made in the treads where the flood has been debated.
But the text of Genesis 10:25 says the ארץ (Earth) was פלג (split, divided) in the days of Peleg, which was after the flood.
Knowing the elevation of the land mass would determine the amount of water required to cover the land mass.
If the land mass was all in one place the problem of how did the animals get to the ark from all over the Earth is solved.
If the Earth was divided after the flood as the text says:
How humans were found on many different lands would be solved.
How the animals got scattered over all the now known Earth would be solved.
Fossils of animals is one of the proofs presented for Pangea so it would be proofs of the land being in one place at one time.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by jar, posted 10-30-2011 6:48 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by jar, posted 10-31-2011 12:11 PM ICANT has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 171 of 306 (639412)
10-31-2011 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by ICANT
10-31-2011 11:52 AM


Re: Single land mass
Just more of your usual quote mining, taking verses out of context, inserting material that is not there and misrepresenting what is there.
No where in the Bible does it say that the geography and configuration of the world was the same at the moment represented by Gen 1:10 and at the time described by the flood myths.
The Generations stories (Genesis 10) are also a separate and independent set of stories and no where do they talk about any physical changes in the geography or configuration of the world. They are talking about areas of political, tribal and nation-state control.
BUT WAIT... THERE'S MORE:
When we look at Genesis 11 we find that it is mutually exclusive with Genesis 10; if one is true then the other is false.
AND WAIT... THERE'S MORE:
Genesis 1, Genesis 10 & Genesis 11 still say nothing about the Flood Myths.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by ICANT, posted 10-31-2011 11:52 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by ICANT, posted 10-31-2011 12:48 PM jar has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 172 of 306 (639413)
10-31-2011 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Trixie
10-30-2011 6:46 AM


Re: Single land mass
Hi Trixie,
Trixie writes:
The only thing we have, prior to Gen 1:2, in the texts is Gen 1:1
Along with the history of that day God created the heavens and the Earth recorded in Genesis 2:4 - 4:26.
Trixie writes:
which is a one sentence summary of what is about to happen.
Genesis 1:1 is a declarative statement with a subject, verb of completed action and the results of that action being the heavens and the Earth existed.
Trixie writes:
Nope! That dating is based on similar geological makeup of the continents prior to that date and differences after that date.
Which simply is proof that the land mass was all in one place.
It has nothing to do with dating when it was all in one place.
Trixie writes:
I'm sure Peleg and pals would have noticed this and the event would have deserved more than a passing nod.
Sure they would have noticed. They would have believed a great earthquake took place.
Why would they think anything else took place?
Trixie writes:
You have man wandering around on a supercontinent which didn't even exist by the time man first appeared yet you claim there are no discrepancies.
You are assuming mankind was not around when the land mass was all in one place.
Do you have any proof?
Yes I have man wandering around on a single land mass that had been flooded between 100 and 300 years prior, building cities, speaking one language whose language was confused and they could not understand each other and thus scattered over the face of that land mass.
Trixie writes:
If your entire belief in the flood scenario rests on these ridiculous mental and textual gymnastics, it says more about belief problems you have with the texts as they stand.
I don't have a problem with what I believe.
I believe Genesis 1:1, God created the heavens and the Earth.
I believe Genesis 1:9, water gathered to one place leaving dry land.
I believe Genesis 1:10, God called the dry land Earth.
I believe Genesis 6:14, God told Noah to build an ark of gopher wood.
I believe Genesis, 7:5, Noah did all that God comanded.
I believe Genesis 7:7, Noah entered the ark.
I believe Genesis 7:8, 9, living critters came in unto Noah in the ark.
I believe Genesis 7:16, God shut Noah in the ark.
I believe Genesis 7:19, that all the land mass under heaven was covered with water.
I believe Genesis 8:16, they went forth out of the ark after the flood waters subscided.
I believe Genesis 10:25, that the Earth was split/divided in the days of Peleg.
So I don't see where I have a problem with my belief.
You and others may have a problem with what I believe but I don't.
If you are interested in what I believe you can check out my threads on this site.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Trixie, posted 10-30-2011 6:46 AM Trixie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Trixie, posted 10-31-2011 4:01 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 173 of 306 (639416)
10-31-2011 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by jar
10-31-2011 12:11 PM


Re: Single land mass
Hi jar,
jar writes:
No where in the Bible does it say that the geography and configuration of the world was the same at the moment represented by Gen 1:10 and at the time described by the flood myths.
Where does it say it was different prior to Genesis 10:25 when it says in the days of Peleg was the Earth split/divided?
jar writes:
The Generations stories (Genesis 10) are also a separate and independent set of stories and no where do they talk about any physical changes in the geography or configuration of the world. They are talking about areas of political, tribal and nation-state control.
Are you saying the Hebrew word ארץ which means Earth in Genesis 1:1, does not mean Earth in the stories in Genesis chapters 10, and 11?
What do you base that upon?
Present your evidence.
jar writes:
When we look at Genesis 11 we find that it is mutually exclusive with Genesis 10; if one is true then the other is false.
Then start a thread and present your evidence and we will discuss it.
jar writes:
Genesis 1, Genesis 10 & Genesis 11 still say nothing about the Flood Myths.
That is your warped assumption.
Genesis 1:9, 10, tells us the condition of the Earth prior to the flood.
Genesis 10:25 tells us what happened to the Earth between 200 and 300 years after the flood.
Genesis chapter 11 tells us what the people did after the flood with them being scattered over the face of the Earth and the Earth then was split/divided as was stated in Genesis 10:25 during the lifetime of Peleg.
Why do you continue to argue the Bible in Bible threads when you believe it is just one great big bunch of myths?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by jar, posted 10-31-2011 12:11 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by jar, posted 10-31-2011 1:07 PM ICANT has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 174 of 306 (639417)
10-31-2011 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by ICANT
10-31-2011 12:48 PM


Re: Single land mass
Again, you seem to be simply misrepresenting what is actually written.
Here is Genesis 1
quote:
6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Sorry but there is nothing there about all the dry land being in one place.
And now let's look at Genesis 10
quote:
Genesis 10
1Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.
2The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
3And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.
4And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
5By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.
6And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.
7And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtechah: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan.
8And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
9He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
10And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.
11Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,
12And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the same is a great city.
13And Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and Naphtuhim,
14And Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (out of whom came Philistim,) and Caphtorim.
15And Canaan begat Sidon his first born, and Heth,
16And the Jebusite, and the Amorite, and the Girgasite,
17And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite,
18And the Arvadite, and the Zemarite, and the Hamathite: and afterward were the families of the Canaanites spread abroad.
19And the border of the Canaanites was from Sidon, as thou comest to Gerar, unto Gaza; as thou goest, unto Sodom, and Gomorrah, and Admah, and Zeboim, even unto Lasha.
20These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations.
21Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born.
22The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram.
23And the children of Aram; Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Mash.
24And Arphaxad begat Salah; and Salah begat Eber.
25And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.
26And Joktan begat Almodad, and Sheleph, and Hazarmaveth, and Jerah,
27And Hadoram, and Uzal, and Diklah,
28And Obal, and Abimael, and Sheba,
29And Ophir, and Havilah, and Jobab: all these were the sons of Joktan.
30And their dwelling was from Mesha, as thou goest unto Sephar a mount of the east.
31These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations.
32These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.
Again, nothing about all the land being in one place and it is quite clear that it is talking about the establishment of areas of influence, political "lands" not physical lands.
And when we look a Genes 11, what do we find?
quote:
Genesis 11
1And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
2And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
3And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
4And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
5And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
9Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
10These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:
11And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
12And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah:
13And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
14And Salah lived thirty years, and begat Eber:
15And Salah lived after he begat Eber four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
16And Eber lived four and thirty years, and begat Peleg:
17And Eber lived after he begat Peleg four hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters.
18And Peleg lived thirty years, and begat Reu:
19And Peleg lived after he begat Reu two hundred and nine years, and begat sons and daughters.
20And Reu lived two and thirty years, and begat Serug:
21And Reu lived after he begat Serug two hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters.
22And Serug lived thirty years, and begat Nahor:
23And Serug lived after he begat Nahor two hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
24And Nahor lived nine and twenty years, and begat Terah:
25And Nahor lived after he begat Terah an hundred and nineteen years, and begat sons and daughters.
26And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran.
27Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot.
28And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.
29And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah.
30But Sarai was barren; she had no child.
31And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.
32And the days of Terah were two hundred and five years: and Terah died in Haran.
Once again, it is talking about political divisions, not physical divisions. It also is in direct contradiction to Genesis 10 right from the very first verse.
In Genesis 10 we read "5By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. "
So different languages existed.
Yet in Genesis 11 we read "1And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. "
One or the other is simply a false statement.
This should be a clue that the stories are not a continuing saga but rather separate, independent tales from different cultures written by different peoples to reach different audiences and for different purposes.
And NONE of it tells us anything about the Flood Myths.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by ICANT, posted 10-31-2011 12:48 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Trixie
Member (Idle past 3706 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004


Message 175 of 306 (639440)
10-31-2011 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by ICANT
10-31-2011 12:29 PM


Re: Single land mass
ICANT writes:
Trixie writes:
The only thing we have, prior to Gen 1:2, in the texts is Gen 1:1
Along with the history of that day God created the heavens and the Earth recorded in Genesis 2:4 - 4:26.
In what fantasy Bible of yours does Genesis 2:4 to 4:26 come BEFORE Genesis 1:2?
ICANT writes:
Trixie writes:
which is a one sentence summary of what is about to happen.
Genesis 1:1 is a declarative statement with a subject, verb of completed action and the results of that action being the heavens and the Earth existed.
Welcome to the Department of Redundancy Department.
ICANT writes:
Trixie writes:
Nope! That dating is based on similar geological makeup of the continents prior to that date and differences after that date.
Which simply is proof that the land mass was all in one place.
It has nothing to do with dating when it was all in one place.
What meaning of the word "dating" are you having trouble with? You can't be suggesting that my use of the word "dating" doesn't mean "dating", or can you?
ICANT writes:
Trixie writes:
You have man wandering around on a supercontinent which didn't even exist by the time man first appeared yet you claim there are no discrepancies.
You are assuming mankind was not around when the land mass was all in one place.
Do you have any proof?
Yes I have man wandering around on a single land mass that had been flooded between 100 and 300 years prior, building cities, speaking one language whose language was confused and they could not understand each other and thus scattered over the face of that land mass.
I make no assumptions. The EVIDENCE indicates that the single land mass broke up long before man appeared. You are the one asserting that man existed at the same time as a single land mass so it's up to you to provide evidentiary support for this idea or stop using it.
ICANT writes:
Trixie writes:
If your entire belief in the flood scenario rests on these ridiculous mental and textual gymnastics, it says more about belief problems you have with the texts as they stand.
I don't have a problem with what I believe.
Maybe not, but you certainly have a problem with reading for comprehension.
You haven't addressed my observations on your belief that man was the first life form.
I don't have a problem with your beliefs, which I am well aware of, but I do have a problem when you claim textual support which doesn't exist. For example, where in your list below does the phrase "single land mass" appear?
ICANT writes:
I believe Genesis 1:1, God created the heavens and the Earth.
I believe Genesis 1:9, water gathered to one place leaving dry land.
I believe Genesis 1:10, God called the dry land Earth.
I believe Genesis 6:14, God told Noah to build an ark of gopher wood.
I believe Genesis, 7:5, Noah did all that God comanded.
I believe Genesis 7:7, Noah entered the ark.
I believe Genesis 7:8, 9, living critters came in unto Noah in the ark.
I believe Genesis 7:16, God shut Noah in the ark.
I believe Genesis 7:19, that all the land mass under heaven was covered with water.
I believe Genesis 8:16, they went forth out of the ark after the flood waters subscided.
I believe Genesis 10:25, that the Earth was split/divided in the days of Peleg
Just as an aside, I believe there is a thread on the translation of "Earth" and a better translation would be "land".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by ICANT, posted 10-31-2011 12:29 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by ICANT, posted 10-31-2011 5:25 PM Trixie has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 176 of 306 (639441)
10-31-2011 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Trixie
10-31-2011 4:01 PM


Re: Single land mass
Hi Trixie,
Trixie writes:
Just as an aside, I believe there is a thread on the translation of "Earth" and a better translation would be "land".
I can't find that thread, would you give a little more information?
Would that be the wet land or the dry land?
Or would it be the wet land and the dry land that compose the crust and mantel along with the core of the Earth?
All the wet land was covered before the flood and during the flood all the dry land was also covered with water.
quote:
Genesis 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
So if dry land existed on the planet Earth it was covered by water.
You may be right that all the land mass was not in one place at the time of the flood.
Which would make it a little more difficult to cover with water especially if the geography was as it is today, as it would take a lot more water.
But for God it would be no problem.
But the text says the Earth, the same thing the dry land in Genesis 1:10 was called פלג was split/divided in the days of Peleg.
Explain how it could be split/divided if it was already split/divided.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Trixie, posted 10-31-2011 4:01 PM Trixie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by Coragyps, posted 10-31-2011 7:58 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied
 Message 178 by Trixie, posted 10-31-2011 9:30 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 181 by IamJoseph, posted 11-01-2011 1:09 AM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 177 of 306 (639443)
10-31-2011 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by ICANT
10-31-2011 5:25 PM


Re: Single land mass
So if dry land existed on the planet Earth it was covered by water.
Then it wouldn't be all that dry, now would it? It would, in fact, be wet, no? Or had they invented Saran Wrap back then?
Is this a Monty Python skit? Was Noah pining for the fjords?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by ICANT, posted 10-31-2011 5:25 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
Trixie
Member (Idle past 3706 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004


Message 178 of 306 (639456)
10-31-2011 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by ICANT
10-31-2011 5:25 PM


Re: Single land mass
Are you readingover what you write to me befe you post it?
ICANT writes:
So if dry land existed on the planet Earth it was covered by water.
Eh? Quite apart from the fact that if it was covered in water it's anything but dry, your use of the word "if" in "So IF dry land existed...." has boggled my mind. Yes, I agree that a worldwide flood would cover all the land, but you'd be hard pushed to describe it as a world wide flood if there was no dry land in the first place. Does this mean that prior to the flood everyone was paddling around knee-deep in water?
ICANT writes:
You may be right that all the land mass was not in one place at the time of the flood
Halle-bloody-luja!! Finally, you seem to realise that there isn't a single mention in the texts of the land being a single land mass. Has it occurred to you that the division of the "land" in the days of Peleg may refer to political/tribal division? It makes more sense and is in context with the rest of the story that it appears in.
The thread you might find interesting is one recently brought back to the top by purpledawn, I can't remember the title of it, but will supply a link tomorrow. Basically it argues that given that Earth is the name of the planet, Moses is unlikely to have used that terminology in his stories. It would be the dry land, the land that you've been using the word "Earth" for.
EvC Forum: Not The Planet
Edited by Trixie, : Found link

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by ICANT, posted 10-31-2011 5:25 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by ICANT, posted 11-01-2011 12:01 AM Trixie has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 179 of 306 (639464)
11-01-2011 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by Trixie
10-31-2011 9:30 PM


Re: Single land mass
Hi Trixie,
Trixie writes:
IF dry land existed...." has boggled my mind.
It wouldn't have had you read it in context rather than cherry picking what you wanted to question.
quote:
So if dry land existed on the planet Earth it was covered by water.
You may be right that all the land mass was not in one place at the time of the flood.
Which would make it a little more difficult to cover with water especially if the geography was as it is today, as it would take a lot more water.
But for God it would be no problem.
But the text says the Earth, the same thing the dry land in Genesis 1:10 was called ארץ was split/divided in the days of Peleg.
Dry land did exist in Genesis 1:10 so it was covered with the water in Genesis 7:19, 20.
Trixie writes:
Has it occurred to you that the division of the "land" in the days of Peleg may refer to political/tribal division?
It hasn't crossed my mind since 1968 when we argued for 3 months in Hebrew class with several scholars as to what was recorded.
Had the writer wanted to refer to political/tribal division he would have used the same words he used elsewhere.
quote:
Genesis 10:32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.
Note: It says the nations were divided in the Earth after the flood. That took place in Genesis 11:9.
The Hebrew word גוי translated nations also means people.
The Hebrew word משפחה translated families also means tribe and clan.
Since the statement in Genesis 10:25 which is only 7 verses away from verse 32 it means what it says.
Genesis 10:25 says the ארץ was split/divided.
It does not say the גוי, nations were split/divided.
It does not say the משפחה, tribes or clans was split/divided.
So what makes you think it was a national (political) or tribal split/division?
Trixie writes:
It makes more sense and is in context with the rest of the story that it appears in.
So it makes more sense to you that the writer used Earth in Genesis 10:25 to mean tribal or national split/division rather than the words he used in 10:5, 20, 31, and 32.
The author used גוי nations, and משפחה, tribes in all of those verses.
It is totaly illogical that the author would use ארץ Earth, if he wanted to convey the thought of a tribal or national split/division.
Can you give me one logical reason an author would do that?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Trixie, posted 10-31-2011 9:30 PM Trixie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Trixie, posted 11-01-2011 4:42 AM ICANT has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 180 of 306 (639468)
11-01-2011 12:58 AM


ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
What Genesis says about the Noah flood. The opening preamble in the text:
quote:
7/1 And the LORD said unto Noah: 'Come thou and all thy house into the ark.
And that is why no wild animals are listed. The flood was a regional one relating only to Noah's household possessions, also backed up by the dimensions of the boat. Whatever is read thereafter MUST align with the preamble - otherwise you get a fine for driving the wrong way.
This is the most intelligent writings humanity possesses, the only one which can stand up to state of art contemporary science today. Non-intelligent writings do not list Mount Ararat for the first time, with aerial view photographical accuracy of its exact location. Non contemporary writings cannot list a whole geneology of names for the first time and have every one of them authenticated by archeology. Nor is there a writings which gives the first 'NAME' of a human and of a King. A true intelligent view considers these factors.

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by ICANT, posted 11-01-2011 9:16 AM IamJoseph has replied

  
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