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Author | Topic: Hyperbole in the Bible | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
purpledawn Member (Idle past 3714 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
After many years of reading discussions in this forum, I find that both the religious and religion-free tend to read and understand the Bible differently than they do non-Biblical books. Even I have been lured into viewing an exaggeration as literal.
Hyperbole, or extreme exaggeration, is one of many literary devices used in the Bible to enthrall the audience. I am partial to a plain text reading of the text which does not exclude literary devices. IOW, this does not mean literal (free from exaggeration or embellishment).
The p'shat is the plain, simple meaning of the text. The understanding of scripture in its natural, normal sense using the customary meanings of the word’s being used, literary style, historical and cultural setting, and context. ... Note that within the p'shat you can find several types of language, including figurative, symbolic and allegorical. We probably use hyperbole on a daily basis and just don't realize it. Many times we have examined the accuracy and inerrancy of Bible passages, but how many were simply exaggerations? Although I dislike apologetics, I would like to look at various passages considered by some to be contradictions or absolute statements and see if hyperbole comes into play. Good Kings
2 Kings 18:5 - Hezekiah trusted in the LORD, the God of Israel. There was no one like him among all the kings of Judah, either before him or after him. 2 Kings 23:25 - Neither before nor after Josiah was there a king like him who turned to the LORD as he did--with all his heart and with all his soul and with all his strength, in accordance with all the Law of Moses. The above verses are simply an exaggerated way to say they were good kings. We use similar exaggerations when complementing people. Worst Year Ever
Ezekiel 5:9 - Because of all your detestable idols, I will do to you what I have never done before and will never do again. Daniel 9:12 - You have fulfilled the words spoken against us and against our rulers by bringing upon us great disaster. Under the whole heaven nothing has ever been done like what has been done to Jerusalem. Matthew 24:21 - For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again. The above verses are an exaggerated way of saying that whatever is happening or is going to happen is really bad. It is not uncommon for people today to exaggerate how bad their day was or how bad a disaster was or will be. We have no problem accepting such speech as exaggeration and not literal.
Hyperbole in the Bible There are many more examples of hyperbole in Scripture. Look at the universal negative used in Isaiah 13:20. Speaking of Babylon’s judgment in the Old Testament, it says, It will never be inhabited or lived in from generation to generation; nor will the Arab pitch his tent there, nor will shepherds make their flocks lie down there. Yet we know that long since the Old Testament judgment upon Babylon, people have in fact lived there. We also see hyperbole used regarding the judgement of Tyre. Ezekiel 26:14 says, And I will make you a bare rock; you will be a place for the spreading of the nets. You will be built no more, for I the Lord have spoken. Yet long afterwards, Jesus ministered there, as did the apostles (Matt. 15:21-28, Mark 3:8, Luke 6:17, Acts 21:3). This is not error; this is hyperbolic, poetic talk regarding powerful judgment. Such language is for dramatic effect, and is not meant to be taken in a wooden, literal sense. When we read the words all, everything, and forever; we are probably looking at hyperbole. We do the same thing today to express a large number or long period of time. The flood story is a good example of exaggeration with the use of the words everything and all. I don't see that the books of the Bible are that much different from other ancient Near Eastern writings that contain exaggerated speech or our writings today that contain exaggerated speech. We recognize it today, why not when we read the Bible? Hyperbole helps apologetics in some cases, but can go against them in others; such as the flood story. So can we look at the writings with a fresh eye and read the Bible stories like any other book or have we been to tainted by exposure? This thread is not about what Christianity teaches. It is about what the text says with as little bias from either side as possible. Let's debate more hyperbole in the Bible. (Accuracy and Inerrancy please)
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Adminnemooseus Inactive Administrator |
Thread copied here from the Hyperbole in the Bible thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17919 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
The obvious question is what makes you think that the Flood story is basically a historical story with elements of hyperbole rather than a myth ?
The creation of the rainbow (Genesis 9:13-14), for instance, is an obvious mythic element. Indeed why should we be looking at the bible at all for that question, when the Bible story is derived from an older Mesopotamian story ? Shouldn't we go back to the oldest versions of the story we can find ?
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3714 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
If you want to debate whether the flood story is myth, historical fiction, or historical; then start your own thread.
Edited by purpledawn, : Typo
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ICANT Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
Hi PD,
purpledawn writes: Good Kings
2 Kings 18:5 - Hezekiah trusted in the LORD, the God of Israel. There was no one like him among all the kings of Judah, either before him or after him. 2 Kings 23:25 - Neither before nor after Josiah was there a king like him who turned to the LORD as he did--with all his heart and with all his soul and with all his strength, in accordance with all the Law of Moses. The above verses are simply an exaggerated way to say they were good kings. We use similar exaggerations when complementing people. Why did you choose to cherry pick those two verses and proclaim them to be an exaggeration? The story in 2 Kings 18:5 begins:
quote: He accomplished a lot of things starting at the age of 25 so where is the hyperbole? The second story in 2 Kings 23:25 starts in 22:1:
quote: So a person who takes the throne at 8 years old and accomplishes what he did in 31 years is an amazing accomplishment. So where is the hyperbole? God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3714 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:I stated in the OP: Many times we have examined the accuracy and inerrancy of Bible passages, but how many were simply exaggerations? Although I dislike apologetics, I would like to look at various passages considered by some to be contradictions or absolute statements and see if hyperbole comes into play. Alleged Contradictions It is argued that mutually exclusive statements are made, therefore, both statements cannot be true. Both kings cannot "be like no other king before or after" in the same respect. It was just a way of saying they were very good kings. Using the same type of phrasing doesn't make them untrue. IOW, it isn't a contradiction or inaccuracy.
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 992 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
One of my favorite Bible tales that never seems to make it into Bible Stories for Dear Little Children is the story of the kidnapping of the Ark of the Covenant in I Samuel. I recommend a read of the KJV very highly.
The hyperbole there that is most noticeable is I Samuel 6:19: And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter. How long would it have taken 50,070 men to look into an ark? How many villages had 50,070 men to smite back in Samuel's time? That number is there to make a better story. "The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken
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ICANT Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
Hi PD,
purpledawn writes: It was just a way of saying they were very good kings. Using the same type of phrasing doesn't make them untrue. IOW, it isn't a contradiction or inaccuracy. The two passages you presented when taken in context is not an exaggeration either. These two kings were not just good Kings, they were exceptionally good Kings, from God's viewpoint. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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PaulK Member Posts: 17919 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
According to the OP:
So can we look at the writings with a fresh eye and read the Bible stories like any other book or have we been to tainted by exposure? This thread is not about what Christianity teaches. It is about what the text says with as little bias from either side as possible.
Why should the flood story be excluded from that simply because you decide that it is a hyperbolic description of a real event ? How we interpret it does depend on the nature of the story.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3714 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
I noticed the NIV took the number to 70 and noted that most Hebrew manuscripts and the LXX have the 50,070.
I think the extreme ages in the earlier stories would count as hyperbole. In 1 Samuel 18:7 we have the song about Saul and David. The song made Saul jealous.
As they danced, they sang: "Saul has slain his thousands, and David his tens of thousands." So exaggeration can be used to honor and anger.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
purpledawn writes: quote:So exaggeration can be used to honor and anger. So you don't believe that the people sang about David's tens of thousands? This appears to be a meta example. Yes we know that people do exaggerate, but a story about the people's exaggeration might not be exaggerated I agree with PaulK that it is impossible to say that a story in the Bible is exaggeration or hyperbole unless the story is based on a true story whose actual dimensions are less than those described in the Bible. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3714 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:Didn't say that at all. quote:I didn't say the whole story was exaggerated. I pointed out the hyperbole in the song. quote:Hyperbole is commonly used in fiction, drama, poetry, and common speech. The whole story doesn't have to be considered an exaggeration just because there is hyperbole within the story.
Genesis 13:16 I will make your offspring like the dust of the earth, so that if anyone could count the dust, then your offspring could be counted. Matthew 24:2 and Luke 19:44
"Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."
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Adminnemooseus Inactive Administrator |
Let us keep the flood out of this topic Content withdrawn
[withdrawn]
Why should the flood story be excluded from that simply because you decide that it is a hyperbolic description of a real event ? How we interpret it does depend on the nature of the story. There have been and will be more flood topics. While the flood may technically qualify to be in this topic, I think it should be excluded, for it would probably crowd out other considerations. Certainly, you're welcome to start the "Hyperbolic Description of the Flood" topic. No replies to this message, in this topic. Adminnemooseus[/withdrawn] Per PaulK's quoted and his follow up complaint and per the here below discussion, I've withdrawn my previous opinion and that message content has been tagged as such. I still think it would be good to exclude the flood from this topic, as "hyperbole considerations" are and have been covered in flood specific topics. We shall now see if this turns into a flood topic. Adminnemooseus Edited by Adminnemooseus, : See above.Please be familiar with the various topics and other links in the "Essential Links", found in the top of the page menu. Amongst other things, this is where to find where to report various forum problems.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3714 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:Debating hyperbole within the flood story hasn't been excluded. Debating whether the flood story as a whole is a myth or real event is excluded, which is the point of Message 4. Hyperbole within a story doesn't automatically make it fiction. Read Message 12. Show the hyperbole in the flood story or if you don't believe there is hyperbole in the flood story, explain why you don't feel the story contains hyperbole. If you need to know whether the story is actually fact or fiction before discussing hyperbole, then you're out of luck in this thread.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17919 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
quote: Moose seems to think otherwise.
quote: It shouldn't be, because if we want to do any sort of literary analysis, genre has to be considered.
quote: Of course, I never said that it did, so this is just a strawman,
quote: Rather YOU should support your claim that the flood story is hyperbolic.
quote: Of course it is the question of genre, not a fact/fiction divide that is relevant. But if you think that you can show that it contains hyperbole without taking that consideration into account, go ahead.
{"Flood" opinion withdrawn if not changed. See here. - Adminnemooseus} Edited by Adminnemooseus, : See red above.
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