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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Occupy Wall Street

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Author Topic:   Occupy Wall Street
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(1)
Message 2 of 602 (635994)
10-03-2011 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by hooah212002
10-03-2011 3:02 PM


Now I feel LESS pessimistic. Thanks for the Monday booster shot.

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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(2)
Message 72 of 602 (636279)
10-05-2011 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Rahvin
10-04-2011 3:39 PM


Re: What George Said
Rahvin writes:
I claimed that Obama "let go" of his popular support once he became President.
Rahvin writes:
Where he should have been continuing to energize the public and selling his proposals and using the public mandate to pressure them through Congress, he instead demoralized the base by showing that he wasn't really going to follow through on basically anything he had promised.
Good post Rhavin, but I didn't think you went far enough.
I am gonna propose another Obama II thread shortly. However, I've been so busy at work, I fear I won't be able to baby-sit it.
From your above quotes, it seems you think Obama changed direction once in the white house. Or at least stopped fighting the good fight. However, if you researched his PRE-white house actions and associations, i think you might consider that he was never going to follow through on his proposals. Browse through the previous Obama thread for other evidence, but for now consider these two things:
1. While a SENATOR he voted FOR illegal wiretapping. While this was hideous enough, what this signaled was that he was gonna allow ALL of Bush/Chaney's criminal actions to pass without consequence. The 35 Articles of Impeachment by Kucinich never was acted on. Chaney was so sure Obama wouldn't assign investigators that to this day Chaney openly brags about torturing. Although Obama pledged to uphold the constitution and its laws, Bush and Chaney know they are safe. Obama actions clearly showed he was not for justice or for the public's welfare.
Efforts to impeach George W. Bush - Wikipedia
2. Please read "Obama’s Money Cartel"
It clearly shows his real masters are on Wall Street. No one should have expected hope or change.
"Seven of the Obama campaign’s top 14 donors consist of officers and employees of the same Wall Street firms charged time and again with looting the public and newly implicated in originating and/or bundling fraudulently made mortgages. . . The political publication, The Hill, reported on December 20, 2007, that three salaried aides on the Obama campaign were registered lobbyists for dozens of corporations.
On February 10, 2005, SENATOR Obama voted in favor of the passage of the Class Action Fairness Act of 2005. Senators Biden, Boxer, Byrd, Clinton, Corzine, Durbin, Feingold, Kerry, Leahy, Reid and 16 other Democrats voted against it. It passed the Senate 72-26 and was signed into law on February 18, 2005. . . . Three days before Senator Obama expressed that fateful yea vote, 14 state attorneys general, including Lisa Madigan of Senator Obama’s home state of Illinois, filed a letter with the Senate and House, pleading to stop the passage of this corporate giveaway. . . .This legislation, which dramatically impaired labor rights, consumer rights and civil rights, involved five years of pressure from 100 corporations, 475 lobbyists, tens of millions of corporate dollars buying influence in our government, and the active participation of the Wall Street firms now funding the Obama campaign
Should there be any doubt left as to who owns our government? The very same cast of characters making the Obama hit parade of campaign loot are the clever creators of the industry solutions to the wave of foreclosures gripping this nation’s poor and middle class, effectively putting the solution in the hands of the robbers.
zcommunications.org - zcommunications Resources and Information.
Edited by dronester, : formatted into paragraghs, better readability

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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 121 of 602 (636831)
10-11-2011 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Buzsaw
10-11-2011 11:39 AM


Re: Demand What Of Their Congressman?
Buzzcola writes:
Tell me, Onifre, why, if America is so bad for minorities, why do Hispanics illegally cross our borders so as to find a better life, education and income?
For Hispanics, perhaps america is SLIGHTLY better than Mexico when it comes to not being de-nogginated?
quote:
Beheadings signal cartel's arrival in small Mexican town
. . . beheadings are becoming distressingly routine amid Mexico’s gangland turmoil. More than 200 victims have been decapitated in the past few years, according to the count by the National Human Rights Commission, a government agency.
Beheadings signal cartel's arrival in small Mexican town
As far as Haiti and Cuba, gosh, america has done such an irreparably beautiful job of creating paradises there, I don't know why they would want to leave their homes. Same for those ingrateful Iraqis.
Edited by dronester, : added quote
Edited by dronester, : re-spelled de-nogginated.

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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(1)
Message 175 of 602 (637727)
10-17-2011 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by xongsmith
10-17-2011 2:55 PM


Re: Best way to Occupy Wall Street
Xongsmithereeno writes:
If you see it advertised on major TV, boycott it. If it's advertised in magazines, boycott it. Advertising in fact is the best way of telling you when NOT to buy something - a great reverse barometer.
Small potatoes.
It would be better if we could somehow boycott the US military and the companies that profit from the tyranny, oppression and death they produce. $1.2 TRILLION, EVERY year, can be spent on better things.
The Real US National Security Budget: 1.2 Trillion
The Real US National Security Budget: 1.2 Trillion – Mother Jones
Edited by dronester, : added website

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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 204 of 602 (638020)
10-19-2011 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by Coyote
10-18-2011 9:20 PM


Re: Occupy Wall Street Crowd
Hey Mr. Coyote,
I watched the Republican debate last night. It SEEMS, except for one candidate Ron Paul (who REALLY seemed to be out of step for Republicans on this issue), they all want to keep funding the military with no meaningful reductions.
I am curious. Since you gave my recent reduce-the-military-funding post a "jeer", can you please describe what specifically you didn't like about it? Or can you describe which candidate you are mostly aligned with for this topic?
Thanks.

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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 457 of 602 (639537)
11-01-2011 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 451 by Rahvin
11-01-2011 1:12 PM


Re: Parlimentary system
Rahvin writes:
I'm not particularly convinced that their newly elected competitors would significantly change the parts of the system we object to.
I would like your opinion tested. It would be my desire that ANY candidate (like Obama) that receives funding from corporate america is immediately rejected as a voter's choice. In their place, let's elect Green party, Socialist party, or any other third party candidate who don't/won't receive corporate backing and see what happens.
By now, can't all the voters see what happens when we elect people who are slaves to their Wall Street masters?

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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 486 of 602 (639610)
11-02-2011 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 481 by jar
11-02-2011 9:37 AM


Re: Democracy
Jar writes:
I think I have mentioned several times in this thread that our politicians simply reflect the electorate.
I don't beleive that is true. The us population is far left to what the government does in our name. Off the top of my head, military spending and health care are two examples that are not congruent.
I would like to submit the Ben and Jerry's Oreo Budget test to each of the forum's participants and then average the results somehow. I'd bet it would quickly show how far off the government is to the population's wants. Perhaps even ol' racist Buzz would be surprised how "socialist" he really is when compared to reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9kXPTwIO08
(I know, I know, the video is dated and does not reflect current budgets. I am searching the web for a possible current version, but really, this should suffice)
Edited by dronester, : I know, I know, the video is dated and does not reflect 2011-2012 budgets.

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 Message 481 by jar, posted 11-02-2011 9:37 AM jar has replied

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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 488 of 602 (639615)
11-02-2011 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 487 by jar
11-02-2011 11:41 AM


Re: Democracy
I think some smart guy once said;
Jar writes:
. . . the basic problem is still an uneducated electorate
(Additionally, keep this in mind, for presidential elections, about HALF the american population votes. Pathetic. For other elections, it is MUCH, MUCH smaller. Much much pathetic. Without active and thoughtful participants, democracy is a pipe-dream.
Also, election day on a tuesday helps the turnout rate stay low, that generally helps keep the poor from participating and registering their wants which just helps allow the government to do as it wants.
Also also, the corporate media helps hide politician's real intents/policies/political history, thereby easily bamboozling the lazy and thoughtless american public.)
Jar writes:
. . . the basic problem is still an uneducated electorate
Yep, yep.
Edited by dronester, : clarity

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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 493 of 602 (639622)
11-02-2011 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 490 by jar
11-02-2011 12:14 PM


Both sides of the fence?
Jar writes:
But remember, the electorate enabled those problems to return; it was the electorate that supported media consolidation, removed the Fairness Doctrine, allowed the appointment of Supreme Court Justices that decided to allow "Corporate Citizens Political Support", defund Public Radio and Television and many other safeguards.
Perhaps, but please remember, the electorate that you speak of is far less than 50% of the voting public. Hardly a mandate from the people.

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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 498 of 602 (639629)
11-02-2011 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 494 by Rahvin
11-02-2011 12:37 PM


Re: Both sides of the fence?
Rahvin writes:
It's gotten to the point that few actually think about why they support this issue or that - if the issue is supported by their "team," then they support it.
I am sure that is true for many people. But I also think it is true that many people vote based on just one issue. For example, abortion.
As you probably read from me previously (and repeatedly), slashing of the military budget and adopting universal health care are my main issues. Which usually doesn't leave me with any election choices except fringe candidates.
I think education may be the only possible answer, but I am afraid too many americans are willfully ignorant. If people choose to vote against their best economic/health interests, what can be done?

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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(7)
Message 519 of 602 (639654)
11-02-2011 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 500 by Coyote
11-02-2011 1:53 PM


The Big White Cock
Pretty good story Mr. Coyote. But I remember it going like this . . .
The Big White Cock
The Big White Cock said to 99% of her neighbors, "thank you for subsidizing my business with corporate welfare. Even though I profited one Billion dollars last year, you still want to give me another Billion dollars this year! That is nice," he said to himself, "but why not TWO billion dollars?"
"My," the Big White Cock said, "you've worked so hard and paid taxes to build a fine infrastructure so that I may profit. But that is not enough, who will help me plant my crop?"
"I will, I am desperate to feed my two children and wife," said the cow.
"I will, I am desperate to give care to my sickly child with pre-existing health conditions," said the duck.
"I will, Bush Jr's friend who worked at Enron stole my pension, I must work until I die," said the pig.
"Since you are ALL desperate for work" said the Big White Cock, "I will take advantage of the situation and pay you each subsistence pay."
The Big White Cock said to 99% of her neighbors, "thank you for giving me another generous tax cut this year. It is even more than last year. Even though I profited one Billion dollars last year, I am happy to take more tax cuts." But, to himself he replied, "I would be really ecstatic if the tax cut was a little bigger."
"Now, who will help me reap my wheat?" asked the Big White Cock.
"I will, I am desperate to feed my family," said the cow.
"I will, I am desperate to give care to my sickly child with pre-existing health conditions," said the duck.
"I can't, I have just died. An 87-year-old senior probably shouldn't have been doing heavy manual labor out in the fields in the hot sun" said the pig.
"Well, I need THREE workers," said the Big White Cock, "I will hire an illegal immigrant to help me make my profits." And so he did.
The Big White Cock said to 99% of her neighbors, "thank you for giving me a tax-payer-paid-for bonus. It is more than last year. Even though I profited one Billion dollars last year, I am quite happy to receive a special incentive bonus especially for CEOs. Err, how about a little something extra for a rainy day?" the Big White Cock whispered to himself.
At last it came time to assemble the ingredients. "Who will help me prepare the bread?" asked the Big White Cock.
"I will, I am desperate to feed my two children and wife," said the cow.
"I can't. My child just died. I couldn't afford the additional health costs and when my child died I've become severely depressed. I will commit suicide tonight," said the duck.
"Then the Big White Cock said, "OK, fine with me, I will outsource the labor to foreign workers who will think that some/ANY money is better than none."
The Big White Cock said to 99% of her neighbors, "thank you for sharing all the risk. It is largely from government sponsorship that supports higher learning and technical/military research that most profitable ideas come and that many patents spring from, from the lowly velcro invention to high tech gadgets. Gee, you have shouldered all the risk in business while leaving me all the profits."
At last it came time to bake the bread. "Who will help me guide the bread into the oven?" asked the Big White Cock.
"I will, I am desperate to feed my two children and wife," said the cow.
Then the Big White Cock said "how greedy for you to keep asking me to feed so many of your family. Perhaps you shouldn't have had so many damned children you couldn't afford. Since prison labor has become all the business rage in the southern states, perhaps I should simply look elsewhere for labor. But since I declare myself to be benevolent and generous, I will hire you, but I will only give you enough food to feed . . . TWO of your family members."
The cow painted 'Unfair!' picket signs and marched around and around the Big White Cock, shouting obscenities. But he was too weak from malnutrition. He had given all his meager food rations to his family, and then died. Which in turn made the family dependent on religious charities. And unfortunately, since the churches demanded they convert to the church's faith in exchange for food, God smited the family for their lack of faith and made the mother and child burn in hell for all eternity.
The Big White Cock said to 0% of her neighbors, (of which had all died or moved to Philadelphia), "What will happen to me? Without everyone sharing the risk but leaving only me to profit, how can I continue to buy luxury yachts and buttered lobsters?"
And the Big White Cock was correct to worry. Without the golden safety net that the Big White Cock relied on for so many years, he eventually become a Unitarian, then homeless, and then died with holes in his pockets.
Does this story's moral sound kinda familiar? . . .
Tragedy of the commons - Wikipedia
Edited by dronester, : Subsistence, many typos.
Edited by dronester, : punctuation added
Edited by dronester, : better reference, Tragedy of the commons - Wikipedia

This message is a reply to:
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