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Author Topic:   What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 211 of 306 (639662)
11-02-2011 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by IamJoseph
11-02-2011 7:04 PM


Re: look at what the God characters say
HUH?
No, the flood story is not one fable, they are several fables.
The Genealogies are made up.
The foods are not listed in the flood myths.
London is introduced for the first time in its correct geographical location in the fable Historia Regum Britanniae.
The genealogies in the fable Historia Regum Britanniae are in error.
Sorry Charlie, you don't get the worm.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 7:04 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 8:21 PM jar has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3667 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 212 of 306 (639664)
11-02-2011 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by jar
11-02-2011 7:20 PM


Re: look at what the God characters say
quote:
No, the flood story is not one fable, they are several fables.
The Genealogies are made up.
No, it is not plausable to be made up. It is the greatet math in recorded history, aligning with millions of numbers, life spans, dates, names and places over a 3000 year period. How do we know the 10 Cmands were given on a saturday - can you answer that fable!?
quote:
The foods are not listed in the flood myths.
They are!
quote:
London is introduced for the first time in its correct geographical location in the fable Historia Regum Britanniae.
Londonium [Bridge in latin], as with Briton, are given latin names by Rome some 2000 years ago. Jerusalem, Hevron, Bet El, Avraham, etc are Hebrew names given for the first time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by jar, posted 11-02-2011 7:20 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by jar, posted 11-02-2011 9:15 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3667 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 213 of 306 (639665)
11-02-2011 8:28 PM


A cubit is aprox a feet, +_ a few cms. Namely, it is the length of elbow to palm. See also the writings of Josephus, who describes the temple fortress measurements, both in Hebrew and Greek, to the Romans and the Greeks, as the biggest monument on the earth, in 'cubits'. The dimensions of the boat given to Noah allows to other reading of who/what entered the arc. Such blatant omissions are telling of the fable pushers. Specifically, it contradicts all notions of a writing being wrong or a fable because all the animals of the earth obviously could not fit in such a boat - oh realy! How observant of you! But the sign in your front and rear vision mirrors say:
WRONG WAY - GO BACK.

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 214 of 306 (639668)
11-02-2011 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by IamJoseph
11-02-2011 8:21 PM


Re: look at what the God characters say
iaj writes:
How do we know the 10 Cmands were given on a saturday - can you answer that fable!?
We don't that the Ten Commandments were given on a Saturday. In fact it's almost certain that the Ten Commandments were NEVER given, that Moses never existed, that the Exodus is just another myth.
It really is that simple.
And it still has NOTHING to do with what the King James Authorized Version of the Bible has to say about the flood myths.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 8:21 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 10:56 PM jar has replied
 Message 216 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 11:07 PM jar has seen this message but not replied
 Message 265 by Phat, posted 11-13-2011 3:30 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3667 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 215 of 306 (639680)
11-02-2011 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by jar
11-02-2011 9:15 PM


Re: look at what the God characters say
The 10 C's were given on a saturday, by virtue of its calculus proof - something which cannot be improvised from millions of datings and numbers inerspersed of a 3000 year period, with no errors, in the absence of a super pc or record of that entire period. The text reads 'REMEMBER "THIS" DAY AS THE SATURDAY'. The sabbath law, namely a rest one day per week for all workers with pay, was introduced here, including the DAY and the WEEK. It is different in kind and degree from anything anyone can produce as an equavelence.
Moses is today unproven, despite a host of absolutely credible evidences. But till recently, King David and Solomon were regarded as myth by big time scholars and archeologists - they will never recover from their shame, thanks to the ground itself spitting out this proof. Moses never entered Canaan, and the area in question is notoriously controlled by forces opposing, negating, denying and destroying any possible proof. The Hebrew writings are humanity's most credible historical documents, with over 70% already proven: no scripture can match this.
Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by jar, posted 11-02-2011 9:15 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by jar, posted 11-03-2011 10:08 AM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3667 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 216 of 306 (639684)
11-02-2011 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by jar
11-02-2011 9:15 PM


Re: look at what the God characters say
quote:
And it still has NOTHING to do with what the King James Authorized Version of the Bible has to say about the flood myths.
KJ is a third/forth generation translation with a decidedly European Christian perspective. With all its good intentions, it also makes a Walt Disney effect of the Hebrew: consider that Isaac was a strapping man in his 30's when he was offered for sacrifice by Abraham - not a child in his father's arms as depicted in European paintings. The test was not on Abraham, who fully believed in his actions by proof given him in the matter of a belated son at an old age. This was in fact a world changing account, whereby without Isaac's input in enabling Abraham to pass such a test there would not be three religions today.
The Septuagint is much older than the KJ and has no Christian input, [300 BCE], and this too relies on the Hebrew writings. You have no credible options in your claim of Noah without the Hebrew writings.
Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by jar, posted 11-02-2011 9:15 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 217 of 306 (639686)
11-02-2011 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by IamJoseph
11-02-2011 6:50 PM


Re: look at what the God characters say
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes:
Animals are also listed.
Yes animals are listed.
quote:
7:7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
Noah and his wife his sons and their wives went into the ark.
Then the clean beasts and the unclean beasts and fowls and of everything that creepeth upon the earth came aboard the ark two by two unto Noah into the ark.
So Noah had nothing to do with the animals coming aboard the ark.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 6:50 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 11:34 PM ICANT has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3667 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 218 of 306 (639689)
11-02-2011 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by ICANT
11-02-2011 11:21 PM


Re: look at what the God characters say
quote:
So Noah had nothing to do with the animals coming aboard the ark.
He prepared for them, as directed to him. That the animals came of their own signifies these were domestic animals who knew their keepers; they would have also been privy before humans of an on-coming natural disaster.
This story is not about FX miracles, which are listed in a host of other places in the Hebrew writings, greater in kind than any mind can imagine. This is about authenticity of the story in its minaiture details which also aligns with a common natural disaster. The only difference is the weather forecaster in this case is Noah's God. There is no question a natural disaster occured here; no one has disputed this primal factor. The dispute is limited to the size of this disaster only, whether it is a global or regional one. This gives the report a great measure of authetic and credible reporting - at least in the category of a disaster occuring, whether it was global or regional, reported of a period when no such detailed reportings is seen elsewhere.
The other factor is about motive. There is no reason to include the whole world when reporting a regional event. There is also no sense in disregarding the report as wholly mythical when all of its content is regarded!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2011 11:21 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2011 1:26 AM IamJoseph has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 219 of 306 (639690)
11-02-2011 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by IamJoseph
11-02-2011 6:55 PM


Re: ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes:
Clean refers to kosher,
So clean animals refer to the ones the law which was given a long time after the flood specified. OK I will go with that.
Here is the list of clean and unclean animals in the law.
quote:
Leviticus 11:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,
11:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.
11:3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is cloven-footed, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.
11:4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
11:5 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
11:7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven-footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.
11:8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.
11:9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
11:10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11:11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcasses in abomination.
11:12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.
11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
11:14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
11:15 Every raven after his kind;
11:16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckoo, and the hawk after his kind,
11:17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
11:18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
11:20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.
11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
11:22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.
11:24 And for these ye shall be unclean: whosoever toucheth the carcass of them shall be unclean until the even.
11:25 And whosoever beareth ought of the carcass of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even.
11:26 The carcasses of every beast which divideth the hoof, and is not cloven-footed, nor cheweth the cud, are unclean unto you: every one that toucheth them shall be unclean.
11:27 And whatsoever goeth upon his paws, among all manner of beasts that go on all four, those are unclean unto you: whoso toucheth their carcass shall be unclean until the even.
11:28 And he that beareth the carcass of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: they are unclean unto you.
11:29 These also shall be unclean unto you among the creeping things that creep upon the earth; the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after his kind,
11:30 And the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole.
11:31 These are unclean to you among all that creep: whosoever doth touch them, when they be dead, shall be unclean until the even.
11:32 And upon whatsoever any of them, when they are dead, doth fall, it shall be unclean; whether it be any vessel of wood, or raiment, or skin, or sack, whatsoever vessel it be, wherein any work is done, it must be put into water, and it shall be unclean until the even; so it shall be cleansed.
11:33 And every earthen vessel, whereinto any of them falleth, whatsoever is in it shall be unclean; and ye shall break it.
11:34 Of all meat which may be eaten, that on which such water cometh shall be unclean: and all drink that may be drunk in every such vessel shall be unclean.
11:35 And every thing whereupon any part of their carcass falleth shall be unclean; whether it be oven, or ranges for pots, they shall be broken down: for they are unclean and shall be unclean unto you.
11:36 Nevertheless a fountain or pit, wherein there is plenty of water, shall be clean: but that which toucheth their carcass shall be unclean.
11:37 And if any part of their carcass fall upon any sowing seed which is to be sown, it shall be clean.
11:38 But if any water be put upon the seed, and any part of their carcass fall thereon, it shall be unclean unto you.
11:39 And if any beast, of which ye may eat, die; he that toucheth the carcass thereof shall be unclean until the even.
11:40 And he that eateth of the carcass of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: he also that beareth the carcass of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even.
11:41 And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an abomination; it shall not be eaten.
11:42 Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination.
11:43 Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby.
11:44 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
11:45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.
11:46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:
11:47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.
I think if you read that list closely you will find every creature that exists on planet Earth today is covered as being either a clean beast or an unclean beast.
So when the text says:
quote:
7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
All flesh it means all flesh that has the breath of life. Whether they were clean or unclean.
The sow (or gilt) and boar made the trip. They were unclean animals.
But the law of Moses was not in effect at the time of the flood.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 6:55 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by IamJoseph, posted 11-03-2011 12:11 AM ICANT has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3667 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 220 of 306 (639691)
11-03-2011 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 219 by ICANT
11-02-2011 11:57 PM


Re: ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
quote:
I think if you read that list closely you will find every creature that exists on planet Earth today is covered as being either a clean beast or an unclean beast.
So when the text says:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All flesh it means all flesh that has the breath of life. Whether they were clean or unclean.
The sow (or gilt) and boar made the trip. They were unclean animals.
A fair point. However, Noah would have possessed both clean and unclean animals; some for consumption some not, which is directied by the extra number of consumable clean animals. The text is not in contradiction mode - the provision applies to a regional flood not a global one.
quote:
But the law of Moses was not in effect at the time of the flood.
True. Here it must be seen with the difference of a statement by God or the people. E.g. Jacob was married to two sisters, forbidden under the Mosaic law. This is fine where the law was not yet given. But this is not fine if the declaration came from the law giver, in Noah's time as from God. I mean, there is a difference between what is described in the Hebrew writings as authentic details of how a people act and how God does. God cannot be seen to contradict or change his mind; a positive pledge by God cannot be changed even by God himself, based on the premise God is truth - so no, God cannot do anything and remain as God. Whatever people did before the law is one thing; another what God said.
Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2011 11:57 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 221 of 306 (639693)
11-03-2011 1:10 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by IamJoseph
11-02-2011 6:57 PM


Re: ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes:
Snakes, worms, elephants. These are found in Noah's region.
That is not a verse that is animals.
This verse covers the snakes, worms, and elephants.
quote:
11:42 Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 6:57 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by IamJoseph, posted 11-03-2011 4:40 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 222 of 306 (639694)
11-03-2011 1:18 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by IamJoseph
11-03-2011 12:11 AM


Re: ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes:
the provision applies to a regional flood not a global one.
So you keep asserting.
quote:
Genesis 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
Can you tell me where there would be dry land if all the hills under the whole heaven was covered with 15 cubits of water?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by IamJoseph, posted 11-03-2011 12:11 AM IamJoseph has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 223 of 306 (639695)
11-03-2011 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 218 by IamJoseph
11-02-2011 11:34 PM


Re: look at what the God characters say
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes:
He prepared for them, as directed to him. That the animals came of their own signifies these were domestic animals who knew their keepers; they would have also been privy before humans of an on-coming natural disaster.
Yes Noah built the ark as God had commanded with rooms in it.
Yes Noah gathered food as God had commanded him to do.
If God told a lion to get on the ark why wouldn't that lion get on the ark.
You are limiting God's abilities and power.
If He couldn't have all kinds of wild animals get on the ark how will He be able to get the lion to eat straw and lay down by the lamb?
IamJoseph writes:
The dispute is limited to the size of this disaster only, whether it is a global or regional one.
There is no dispute in the text.
According to Genesis 7:19, 20 all the high hills under the whole heaven was covered with 15 cubits of water.
That don't leave any dry land anywhere.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 11:34 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by IamJoseph, posted 11-03-2011 4:30 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 224 of 306 (639697)
11-03-2011 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by IamJoseph
11-02-2011 8:28 PM


A cubit
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes:
A cubit is aprox a feet, +_ a few cms. Namely, it is the length of elbow to palm.
The short Hebrew cubit was 17.8 inches.
The long Hebrew cubit was 20.67 inches.
The Holy cubit was 25.03 inches.
Why do you insist on call the ark a boat?
IamJoseph writes:
Specifically, it contradicts all notions of a writing being wrong or a fable because all the animals of the earth obviously could not fit in such a boat
Why don't you figure up how many cubit feet would be required to put the 10,000 to 17,000 critters on the earth today and I will figure out how big the ark would have to be to house them.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 8:28 PM IamJoseph has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 225 of 306 (639698)
11-03-2011 1:49 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by IamJoseph
11-02-2011 7:01 PM


Re: ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
Hi Joseph,
Joseph writes:
It means from all the face of the earth in the designated region of Noah.
So where does it designate the region of Noah.
The dry land of Genesis 1:9, 10 was called earth.
If the face of that dry land was covered with water where was the dry land left under the heavens where all land under the heavens was covered with 15 cubits of water.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by IamJoseph, posted 11-02-2011 7:01 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by IamJoseph, posted 11-03-2011 4:25 AM ICANT has replied

  
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