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Author Topic:   Christianity Today: Atheism is the only rational outlook.
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 43 of 95 (401963)
05-23-2007 2:34 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by ringo
05-22-2007 8:07 PM


Re: Uncovering the psychology of the post-modernist
I am reminded of two favorite quotes of my own.
"God Is Dead"---Nietzsche
Nietzsche Is Dead---God (author unknown)
Author unknown by many, at least!

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 Message 42 by ringo, posted 05-22-2007 8:07 PM ringo has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 44 of 95 (402045)
05-23-2007 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by jar
05-22-2007 11:01 AM


Lady Wisdom insists upon center stage
Jar writes:
Christians should definitely question whether "Jesus is the way, the truth, and the light" and if they do so honestly, they will find that Jesus is not the way, the truth, and the light and that that is simply another of the sound bite nonsense phrases beloved of those who want to keep folk ignorant.
I think that sound bites can come from many sources and in many flavors. "It's Just That Simple."
IMHO, it is good to be honest and to be a rationally thinking person. It would be foolish, however, to conclude that God never sent His Son as a message, an inspiration, and the beginning of the solution for everything that ails humanity.
I will agree with you that it is ignorant to assume that Jesus has done everything. Jesus did make a path possible, where before Him there was no path. To assume that other religions have found a path that somehow is able to bypass God in the flesh is, in my opinion, ignorant. Do you honestly think that God expects us to accept a message without a messenger? Do you honestly think that she could care less if we acknowledge the source of her message?
What do you think she expects us to conclude? That we ourselves made up our own message to give to ourselves? How pantheistic can one get?
Edited by Phat, : spalling
Edited by Phat, : Lady Wisdom

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 Message 38 by jar, posted 05-22-2007 11:01 AM jar has replied

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 Message 45 by jar, posted 05-23-2007 9:42 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 46 of 95 (402080)
05-24-2007 4:49 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by jar
05-23-2007 9:42 PM


Re: Lady Wisdom insists upon center stage
Phat writes:
Jesus did make a path possible, where before Him there was no path.
Jar writes:
If that is true the God is even more evil than anyone could imagine.
Of course, within the context of the belief, Jesus existed before any other human..so there was no lack of a path at any point in any humans personal history.
Jar writes:
Regardless of the reality of the Jesus story, it still is left to us to make the message, interpret the message and act on the message.
Left to us by whom? A message by definition needs to originate from a messenger.

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 Message 45 by jar, posted 05-23-2007 9:42 PM jar has replied

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 Message 47 by jar, posted 05-24-2007 7:49 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 48 of 95 (402113)
05-24-2007 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by jar
05-24-2007 7:49 AM


She is almost human!
nemesis_juggernaut writes:
The hilarious thing to me is that more atheists, arguably far smaller in number than theists, spend more time at Christian websites than Christians do. Now, why is that?
Ringo writes:
Same reason as why the monkey house at the zoo is so popular.
"They're so much like us."
"They're almost human."
I can see and appreciate logical thought. I am personally curious why some people are so resistant to belief...as if they are afraid they will look stupid or something.
Santa Claus is one thing. The idea of a Creator who interacts or has interacted personally with humanity is quite another, at least in my acceptance.
I suppose that I really should stop worrying about changing or indoctrinating people!
Jar writes:
Christians should definitely question whether "Jesus is the way, the truth, and the light" and if they do so honestly, they will find that Jesus is not the way, the truth, and the light and that that is simply another of the soundbite nonsense phrases beloved of those who want to keep folk ignorant.
My defenses came up when I heard your assertion. I suppose that I shouldn't care what you say....IF my faith is strong, I don't have to accept being part of some mystical cult of ignorance either!
subbie writes:
The votes were for the position that atheism is the only rational position. That isn't a vote "against" Christianity. It's simply an acknowledgment that Christianity is based on faith, not reason.
Jesus as the Way is also based on Faith and not Reason. I agree with you that Christians who attempt to logically prove their faith are often attacking monsters instead of simply allowing windmills to move hot air! I get irritated at Jar when he mocks belief statements as silly soundbites and then retorts with soundbites of his own.
Two of his more famous ones?
1) It's Just That Simple
2) The Christian Cult Of Ignorance
While it can be argued that much of Christian fundamentalist/charismatic belief theology is ignorant of the real world, I personally do not believe that I am willfully ignorant by believing that Jesus is The Way, Truth, and Light.
Ringo writes:
"Who" killed God is anybody who looks at the situation rationally, who doesn't need to postulate a supernatural cause for the wind and the rain, who doesn't need to consult a "Supreme Being" for every tidbit of advice on life.
I disagree quite passionately! My Belief system encourages daily prayer and meditation. What makes you think that communing with God is in any way dysfunctional or promoting willful ignorance?
I think that people look for too many answers in test-tubes and secular psychological paradigms instead of praying and meditating and allowing the human subconscious to intermingle in Communion with the Divine and provide answers unobtainable through secular humanism and scientific empiricism.
Jar writes:
Who is the messenger in a tree ring or waves on the sea or clouds in the sky?
We are critters that look for patterns and then try to figure out why they exist. We are the messenger.
It is my belief that He (or She) had to become human in order to show us a pattern to follow. Yes, it is a personal belief. No, it is not something that I want everyone to blindly agree with.
If you disagree with the premise that Jesus is the answer, you better have a darn good reason why you can boldly proclaim your own intellect as the answer. Call me stupid, but I believe that my intellect left to its own devices inevitably disintegrates into Ego, Selfishness, and self-centered versus altruistic patterning.

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 Message 64 by nator, posted 05-27-2007 10:18 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 65 of 95 (402528)
05-27-2007 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by nator
05-27-2007 10:18 AM


Rational Conclusions or Easy Answers?
OK. Maybe a better approach would be to ask the question of whether Jesus (and Belief in general) are as good of a subject to question as
the default position of we know nothing....lets attempt to find our own answer
Some people feel comfortable with positive truth claims as answers.
Other people are never satisfied with any answer.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 93 of 95 (640122)
11-07-2011 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by jar
05-29-2007 10:34 AM


People Don't Want To Know The Truth
jar writes:
The two questions remain:
How do you know it is God?
How do you know it is the Holy Spirit?
I never know for certain, though if the instructions are based on my ideas of morality, ethics, and altruism...I can guess.
Of course, I also ask myself...how do I know it isn't God.
I could then blame a devil. OR...I could accept responsibility for the inner unction.
If my inner unction tells me to give somebody money, I take full responsibility for losing (or giving away) that money.
You say that people need to accept responsibility for their decisions, actions, and choices. I agree...to a point. I will not accept responsibility for my fathers actions, nor those of his generation. I also will not continue to accept responsibility for past actions of my country. I will accept responsibility for what I and my generation are doing, even though it may mean that I lose everything.
Atheism is certainly one possible outlook and philosophy, though it is no more rational than my talking with my conscience.
Edited by Phat, : added clarification

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